Why airplanes fly

Michael Ash wrote in
:

In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke.
Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see
even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in
teaching procedures.

Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by
using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the
bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten
them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know
how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't?

Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force
feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the effect
of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying airspeed
and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to boot....you
can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk top simulator.

I imagine you could do a fairly decent job. A sim such as X-Plane has
much of the data needed to come up with the right numbers. But then
again, I don't know whether this is "fairly decent" as in something
which just deceives you, or as in something which is actually
worthwhile. In any case it's somewhat academic, since if the software
doesn't support it then there's no point in having the hardware, and
if there's no hardware the software won't support it....

If even the big iron sims don't do a good job, it should be a good
indication that this problem is harder than it looks from the outside.


Well, the smoothest pilots i know can't fly a "good" sim. The mechanical
ones can..

Says it all, really.



Bertie

On Feb 10, 6:53*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Michael Ash wrote :





In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke.
Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see
even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in
teaching procedures.

Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by
using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the
bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten
them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know
how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't?

Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force
feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the effect
of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying airspeed
and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to boot....you
can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk top simulator.

I imagine you could do a fairly decent job. A sim such as X-Plane has
much of the data needed to come up with the right numbers. But then
again, I don't know whether this is "fairly decent" as in something
which just deceives you, or as in something which is actually
worthwhile. In any case it's somewhat academic, since if the software
doesn't support it then there's no point in having the hardware, and
if there's no hardware the software won't support it....

If even the big iron sims don't do a good job, it should be a good
indication that this problem is harder than it looks from the outside.

Well, the smoothest pilots i know can't fly a "good" sim. The mechanical
ones can..

Says it all, really.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's down to rainy day or otherwise IFR for me. Only time I do it. And
I get bored really fast -- no matter how many add ons I jam in it.

Doesn't hold a candle to the real thing.

wrote in
:

On Feb 10, 6:53*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Michael Ash wrote

et.com:





In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques
wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke.
Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't
see even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an
aid in teaching procedures.

Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by
using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the
bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten
them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know
how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't?

Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force
feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the
effect of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying
airspeed and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to
boot....you can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk
top simulator.

I imagine you could do a fairly decent job. A sim such as X-Plane
has much of the data needed to come up with the right numbers. But
then again, I don't know whether this is "fairly decent" as in
something which just deceives you, or as in something which is
actually worthwhile. In any case it's somewhat academic, since if
the software doesn't support it then there's no point in having the
hardware, and if there's no hardware the software won't support
it....

If even the big iron sims don't do a good job, it should be a good
indication that this problem is harder than it looks from the
outside.

Well, the smoothest pilots i know can't fly a "good" sim. The
mechanical ones can..

Says it all, really.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's down to rainy day or otherwise IFR for me. Only time I do it. And
I get bored really fast -- no matter how many add ons I jam in it.

Yeah, I have a couple of them lying around and I never use them. Once
you've flown under a couple of bridges they are a complete bore.

Doesn't hold a candle to the real thing.


Exactly.


Bertie