Vietnam, any US planes lost in China ?

On 03 Nov 2003 01:58:35 GMT, (MBenShar) wrote:

Dear Mike,

Here's one. On September 20, 1965, USAF Captain Philip E. Smith, 436 TFS, 479
TFW (attached to 6252 TFW) Da Nang, flying an F-104C 56-0883, strayed off
course from a combat air patrol over the Gulf of Tonkin following an instrument
failure. He was shot down over China by Chinese MiG-19s and captured.

The incident is told in "Journey Into Darkness" by Col. Philip E. Smith & Peggy
Hertz

Well, there's "China" and then there's "China". Smith was shot down
over Hainan Island which is Chinese territory, but not mainland China.
It's about a hundred miles off shore in the NE area of the Tonkin
Gulf.

There were incursions into China (been there, done that), but there
was a 25 mile buffer zone along the NVN border and most of the time
there was radar oversight from Red Crown and Disco that provided Guard
channel warnings of buffer zone transgressions.

Don't know that anyone was shot down or bailed out in China proper.

Dear Ed,

Great to have a reply from you. Yes I agree - there's China and there's China.
Can't disagree with your location of the shootdowns.

Here is the very rough list of "US planes lost in China" allowing for the wider
definition Chinese territory.

BTW as part of my project to list all known ejections world wide I've (not
surprisingly) never received any replies from the Chinese authorities about
ejections from their own aircraft nor about aircraft shot down by Chinese
pilots.

I hope the following is of some use to the gentleman who asked the original
question - sources are, "Journey into Darkness" by Col. Philip E. Smith and
Peggy Herz; the POW Network SCOPE Datatbase; "Vietnam Air Losses" by Chris
Hobson and "Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club" by Rene Francillon.


09 April 1965
F-4B
151425
VF-96 - USS Ranger
Ensign Ronald J. Fegan (K/BNR)
Lt(jg). Terence M. Murphy (K/BNR)


20 September 1965
Capt. Phillip E. Smith (POW)
F-104C
56-0883
436 TFS, 479TFW (attached to 6252 TFW) Da Nang

12 April 1966
KA-3B
142653 ZB-3
Det. C, VAH-4 - USS Kitty Hawk
Lt. Cdr. William A. Glasson (MIA)
Lt(jg) Larry M. Jordan (MIA)
ATCS Reuben B. Harris (MIA)
PRCS Kenneth W. Pugh (MIA - Remains Returned 16-December 1975)
Shot down by Chinese MiGs over the Luichow Peninsula in Kuangtung province
Try this website
http://www.scopesys.com/cgi/bio2.cgi?bio=G017



21 August 1967
A-6A
152627
VA-196 - USS Constellation
Lt(jg) Dain Vanderlin Scott (KIA)
Lt(jg) Forrest George Trembley (KIA)

A-6A
152625
VA-196 - USS Constellation
Lt. Cdr Jimmy Lee Buckley (KIA)
Lt. Robert James Flynn (POW) (Ejected)



14 February 1968
A-1H
134499
VA-25 - USS Coral Sea
Lt(jg) Joseph P. Dunn (MIA)


Regards
Mike Bennett
Tamworth, England
Project: Get Out and Walk