EU as joke (modified)

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:02:07 GMT, "Bjørnar" wrote:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

Universally most of Europe knows Bush as a "cowboy". Talk about
intellectual laziness.

Most europeans know Bush, and his administration, as
responsible for misleading the United Nations, falsifying and manipulating
intelligence information in order to gather support for the most radical
action any nation can undertake - acts of war against another nation.

Though I guess wonder what "cowboy" would amount to these days, or how
many europeans you have spoken with on the matter.



Regards...

You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????
Europeans (with a few notable exceptions) are too cowardly
and feeble to do anything, that is except to criticize the
Country that has saved them on several occasions.

Al Minyard

Alan Minyard wrote in
:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:02:07 GMT, "Bjørnar"
wrote:
(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

Universally most of Europe knows Bush as a "cowboy". Talk
about intellectual laziness.

Most europeans know Bush, and his administration, as
responsible for misleading the United Nations, falsifying and
manipulating intelligence information in order to gather
support for the most radical action any nation can undertake -
acts of war against another nation.

Though I guess wonder what "cowboy" would amount to these days,
or how many europeans you have spoken with on the matter.



Regards...

You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????

Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?


Europeans (with a few notable exceptions) are too cowardly
and feeble to do anything, that is except to criticize the
Country that has saved them on several occasions.

I guess ones does what any critic would and should do in
the face of manipulation, express a voice against it.
It takes courage, and I know for a fact that many
americans are doing that as well.

But "europeans"? You might wan't to rethink that.


Regards...

Bjørnar Bolsøy wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in
:


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:02:07 GMT, "Bjørnar"
wrote:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:



Universally most of Europe knows Bush as a "cowboy". Talk about
intellectual laziness.

Most europeans know Bush, and his administration, as responsible
for misleading the United Nations, falsifying and manipulating
intelligence information in order to gather support for the
most radical action any nation can undertake - acts of war
against another nation.

Though I guess wonder what "cowboy" would amount to these days, or
how many europeans you have spoken with on the matter.



Regards...

You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????


Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?



I can answer that for him. Any European who thinks that attacking Iraq
wasn't necessarily a good idea in the war against terrorism or who
thinks that attacking Iraq without a clear idea about the follow-up
wasn't very wise.

In his view, (which fits nicely with crude stereotypes about Americans)
displayed here regularly, if you're not with George W. Bush against
Saddam, you obviously must be a Saddam supporter.

He actually called me a Saddam supporter once.

Please Mr. Minyard, feel free to comment if I'm being inaccurate here.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:54:15 +0100, Ralph Savelsberg wrote:



Bjørnar Bolsøy wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in
:


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:02:07 GMT, "Bjørnar"
wrote:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:



Universally most of Europe knows Bush as a "cowboy". Talk about
intellectual laziness.

Most europeans know Bush, and his administration, as responsible
for misleading the United Nations, falsifying and manipulating
intelligence information in order to gather support for the
most radical action any nation can undertake - acts of war
against another nation.

Though I guess wonder what "cowboy" would amount to these days, or
how many europeans you have spoken with on the matter.



Regards...

You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????


Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?



I can answer that for him. Any European who thinks that attacking Iraq
wasn't necessarily a good idea in the war against terrorism or who
thinks that attacking Iraq without a clear idea about the follow-up
wasn't very wise.

In his view, (which fits nicely with crude stereotypes about Americans)
displayed here regularly, if you're not with George W. Bush against
Saddam, you obviously must be a Saddam supporter.

He actually called me a Saddam supporter once.

Please Mr. Minyard, feel free to comment if I'm being inaccurate here.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

Not inaccurate, merely either uninformed or cowardly. You know nothing of our
plans in Iraq (you might want to note that Afghanistan is about to vote on a
constitution making it an Islamic Republic). And you are either with us in the
war on terrorism or against us. I know that having to make an actual choice
scares most europeans silly, but, in this case, a decision is mandatory.

We really do not care what europe decides, as they will never be of
any real assistance, but we do need to know who the enemies are.

As for "crude stereotypes", we are the most advanced nation on earth,
as illustrated by the Nobel awards that our people receive. We have
so many foreign students trying to enter our universities that most
have to assign quotas.

Your stereotypes are of no interest or concern for us. If you want to
continue with the fantasy that europe is somehow "cultured" you
can do it with our blessing.

But do not, rpt, not, get in our way.

Al Minyard

Alan Minyard wrote:


You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????


Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?



I can answer that for him. Any European who thinks that attacking Iraq
wasn't necessarily a good idea in the war against terrorism or who
thinks that attacking Iraq without a clear idea about the follow-up
wasn't very wise.

In his view, (which fits nicely with crude stereotypes about Americans)
displayed here regularly, if you're not with George W. Bush against
Saddam, you obviously must be a Saddam supporter.

He actually called me a Saddam supporter once.

Please Mr. Minyard, feel free to comment if I'm being inaccurate here.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg


Not inaccurate, merely either uninformed or cowardly.


I was just recycling your reasoning about why Europeans are Saddam
supporters. You actually explained this to me a while ago. I think my
memory about this is fairly accurate.

You know nothing of our
plans in Iraq (you might want to note that Afghanistan is about to vote on a
constitution making it an Islamic Republic).


No, indeed, I don't know your plans in Iraq apart from the: "we're going
to turn it into a shining beacon of democracy for the rest of the Middle
East". You don't know `your' plans in Iraq either. The Iraqis don't know
your plans with Iraq. Heck, I wonder whether the Pentagon knows what its
plans are in Iraq.

And you are either with us in the
war on terrorism or against us. I know that having to make an actual choice
scares most europeans silly, but, in this case, a decision is mandatory.


All of Europe, including France and Germany have decided to support the
US in the `War Against Terrorism'. Stretching that definition to include
Iraq has eroded that support, however.


We really do not care what europe decides, as they will never be of
any real assistance, but we do need to know who the enemies are.


If in your definition being an ally means us answering `How high?'
whenever the US president shouts `jump', I guess we'd rather not be your
allies. BTW, you might want to take a closer look at some of your other
Allies: most notably Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.


As for "crude stereotypes", we are the most advanced nation on earth,
as illustrated by the Nobel awards that our people receive. We have
so many foreign students trying to enter our universities that most
have to assign quotas.




The stereotype would be that Americans think that 'if you're not with
us, you're against us'. Note that I call this stereotype crude, as in
fact all stereotypes are, because I know there are many very nice and
intelligent Americans who, unlike you, are able to see nuances and who
know that if a country fails to agree with the US, that doesn't
necessarily mean it's `THE ENEMY'.
I'm not the one confirming the crude stereotypes here.



Your stereotypes are of no interest or concern for us. If you want to
continue with the fantasy that europe is somehow "cultured" you
can do it with our blessing.


For somebody who doesn't care about the stereotypes you certainly seem
to get upset about them. I can't blame you. If I were an American, I'd
probably be upset about them as well.
BTW: aren't you assuming that since I'm European and disagree with you,
I must be one of those people who think that Europe is more cultured.
Your reply certainly seems to indicate that.
If you are, you're wrong. Europe has a different culture than the US,
both with benefits and drawbacks, depending on which parts of Europe and
the US being compared, since neither are homogeneous. However, I
wouldn't call Europe more cultured. I don't think the ratio of knuckle
headed idiots over smart and or decent people is all that different in
Europe from that in the US.

BTW, I've visited your country for a conference in Texas and a trip
through Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Arizona. I enjoyed my stay, the
service, the hospitality, and the fantastic landscapes that I've seen. I
have good friends living in your country and regard the standard of the
research being done in your country as very high. Pretty much all
Americans (including Texans) that I've met in person are actually very
likeable people, even though we might disagree on a few issues. I'd
love to visit again, though I doubt I'd ever want to live in the US for
an extended period of time.


But do not, rpt, not, get in our way.

Al Minyard



Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:13:53 +0100, Ralph Savelsberg wrote:



Alan Minyard wrote:


You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????


Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?



I can answer that for him. Any European who thinks that attacking Iraq
wasn't necessarily a good idea in the war against terrorism or who
thinks that attacking Iraq without a clear idea about the follow-up
wasn't very wise.

In his view, (which fits nicely with crude stereotypes about Americans)
displayed here regularly, if you're not with George W. Bush against
Saddam, you obviously must be a Saddam supporter.

He actually called me a Saddam supporter once.

Please Mr. Minyard, feel free to comment if I'm being inaccurate here.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg


Not inaccurate, merely either uninformed or cowardly.


I was just recycling your reasoning about why Europeans are Saddam
supporters. You actually explained this to me a while ago. I think my
memory about this is fairly accurate.

You know nothing of our
plans in Iraq (you might want to note that Afghanistan is about to vote on a
constitution making it an Islamic Republic).


No, indeed, I don't know your plans in Iraq apart from the: "we're going
to turn it into a shining beacon of democracy for the rest of the Middle
East". You don't know `your' plans in Iraq either. The Iraqis don't know
your plans with Iraq. Heck, I wonder whether the Pentagon knows what its
plans are in Iraq.

Ah, so since we have not notified you of our plans, there cannot be any plans.
Rather faulty logic there. Note my comments about Afghanistan.

And you are either with us in the
war on terrorism or against us. I know that having to make an actual choice
scares most europeans silly, but, in this case, a decision is mandatory.


All of Europe, including France and Germany have decided to support the
US in the `War Against Terrorism'. Stretching that definition to include
Iraq has eroded that support, however.


No, old europe has been nothing other than obstructionist in the
war on terrorism. And you are either with us or against us.

We really do not care what europe decides, as they will never be of
any real assistance, but we do need to know who the enemies are.


If in your definition being an ally means us answering `How high?'
whenever the US president shouts `jump', I guess we'd rather not be your
allies. BTW, you might want to take a closer look at some of your other
Allies: most notably Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

No problem, you are not our allies. The next time europe screws up
do not look to us to bail you out (again).


As for "crude stereotypes", we are the most advanced nation on earth,
as illustrated by the Nobel awards that our people receive. We have
so many foreign students trying to enter our universities that most
have to assign quotas.




The stereotype would be that Americans think that 'if you're not with
us, you're against us'. Note that I call this stereotype crude, as in
fact all stereotypes are, because I know there are many very nice and
intelligent Americans who, unlike you, are able to see nuances and who
know that if a country fails to agree with the US, that doesn't
necessarily mean it's `THE ENEMY'.
I'm not the one confirming the crude stereotypes here.


If you are not with us, you are against us is a true statement. Nuances
do not apply in this case, although the european culture of
never doing anything is obvious. Not a "crude stereotype" at all,
merely statements of fact.


Your stereotypes are of no interest or concern for us. If you want to
continue with the fantasy that europe is somehow "cultured" you
can do it with our blessing.


For somebody who doesn't care about the stereotypes you certainly seem
to get upset about them. I can't blame you. If I were an American, I'd
probably be upset about them as well.
BTW: aren't you assuming that since I'm European and disagree with you,
I must be one of those people who think that Europe is more cultured.
Your reply certainly seems to indicate that.
If you are, you're wrong. Europe has a different culture than the US,
both with benefits and drawbacks, depending on which parts of Europe and
the US being compared, since neither are homogeneous. However, I
wouldn't call Europe more cultured. I don't think the ratio of knuckle
headed idiots over smart and or decent people is all that different in
Europe from that in the US.



BTW, I've visited your country for a conference in Texas and a trip
through Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Arizona. I enjoyed my stay, the
service, the hospitality, and the fantastic landscapes that I've seen. I
have good friends living in your country and regard the standard of the
research being done in your country as very high. Pretty much all
Americans (including Texans) that I've met in person are actually very
likeable people, even though we might disagree on a few issues. I'd
love to visit again, though I doubt I'd ever want to live in the US for
an extended period of time.


We will not lose any sleep over that.

But do not, rpt, not, get in our way.

Al Minyard

Alan Minyard wrote in
:

We really do not care what europe decides, as they will never be
of any real assistance, but we do need to know who the enemies
are.

It helps to know a bit about what enemies you construct too.
It seem very, very hard for some americans to realize that
people don't axe eachother for no reason.


Regards...

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:22:09 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in
:

We really do not care what europe decides, as they will never be
of any real assistance, but we do need to know who the enemies
are.

It helps to know a bit about what enemies you construct too.
It seem very, very hard for some americans to realize that
people don't axe eachother for no reason.


Regards...

Europe is irrelevant. We could care less what supposed
"reasons" you have.

Do not, rpt not, get in our way.

Al Minyard

Alan Minyard wrote:


Europe is irrelevant. We could care less what supposed
"reasons" you have.

Do not, rpt not, get in our way.

Al Minyard


You come across as one arrogant SOB sir, you admire school
bullies too do you?.
--

-Gord.

You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????

Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?

Chirac, Schroeder, etc. as well as the majority of "european"
individuals (who elected and support the above mentioned
cowards).

Europeans (with a few notable exceptions) are too cowardly
and feeble to do anything, that is except to criticize the
Country that has saved them on several occasions.

I guess ones does what any critic would and should do in
the face of manipulation, express a voice against it.
It takes courage,

No, it takes cowardice and duplicity.

and I know for a fact that many
americans are doing that as well.

But "europeans"? You might wan't to rethink that.

Why? It is perfectly valid.