Garmin 430 rquestion- does the approach always have to be activated via "activate approach"?

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Stan Prevost wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

John Collins wrote:


When an approach is loaded, it is appended to the flight plan after the
destination airport. As stated earlier, the waypoints in the original
flight plan will sequence normally until the destination airport is
reached, at which time the 430 will navigate direct to the IAF waypoint
and automatically "activate" the approach sequence.


To cut to the chase, those of us familiar with using FMSes know to clear
the destination airport from the flight plan once the approach is
loaded. In a full-press FMS, this is known as a route-discontinuity.
And, clearing that discontinuity in a full-press FMS or a Garmin panel
mount will get it all to work as a flight plan with continuity.


On a GNS430, activating the loaded approach is simpler. PROC, ENTER.


I took another look at it and disagree. Once the IAP is selected removing
the airport can be done prior to a critical phase of flight, then
everything sequences without pilot intervention.


FPL, push small knob to get cursor, scroll down to airport, CLR, ENTER to
confirm, FPL to get back to NAV page.

vs

PROC, ENTER.

And if you have to change approaches, which sometimes happens, you can't
select a new one without a destination airport.

Stan Prevost wrote:

FPL, push small knob to get cursor, scroll down to airport, CLR, ENTER
to confirm, FPL to get back to NAV page.

vs

PROC, ENTER.

True enough. But, the bit of extra stuff earlier on is none the less
easier and I don't have to worry about making sure I am where I am
supposed to be if I "activate."

And if you have to change approaches, which sometimes happens, you can't
select a new one without a destination airport.

It is rare to fly the full approach in a TRACON environment. But, if it
is a single approach in each direction, you will usually still know
early on. If it is a major airport then all bets are off, so I would
wait until the vectors begin, then do it your way, but with VTF.

However, if the airport has runway specific STARs, then there is another
level of complexity, which can easily overwhelm single-pilot operations.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Stan Prevost wrote:

FPL, push small knob to get cursor, scroll down to airport, CLR, ENTER to
confirm, FPL to get back to NAV page.

vs

PROC, ENTER.

True enough. But, the bit of extra stuff earlier on is none the less
easier and I don't have to worry about making sure I am where I am
supposed to be if I "activate."

And if you have to change approaches, which sometimes happens, you can't
select a new one without a destination airport.


John Collins informed me, and I confirmed on the sim, that if you delete the
destination airport waypoint from the flight plan, and then need to select a
different approach, the 430 will assume the former destination airport and
will allow you to select a new procedure at that airport.

It is rare to fly the full approach in a TRACON environment. But, if it
is a single approach in each direction, you will usually still know early
on.

I don't find that it is rare to fly an RNAV approach from an IAF at a
satellite airport served by a TRACON (yes at the primary airport). VOR
approaches or others with PTs, yes, but not Basic T and TAA GPS approaches.
But it is not too uncommon for an airport or runway to be turned around
after you have been told what approach to expect.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Stan Prevost wrote:

FPL, push small knob to get cursor, scroll down to airport, CLR, ENTER to
confirm, FPL to get back to NAV page.

vs

PROC, ENTER.

True enough. But, the bit of extra stuff earlier on is none the less
easier and I don't have to worry about making sure I am where I am
supposed to be if I "activate."



(and from another post)
I took another look at it and disagree. Once the IAP is selected removing
the airport can be done prior to a critical phase of flight, then
everything sequences without pilot intervention

Sam, I have reread your posts trying to make sure I understand your points.
First of all, I didn't know the Garmins would self-activate, so that is
something new I have learned from this thread. More on that later. I
understand that you prefer to perform a more complex task rather than a
two-button-task if you can move the task to a less busy period of the
flight. But the "without pilot intervention" part only happens if you were
already direct to the IAF at the time you deleted the airport waypoint, or
deleted the airport waypoint to make the navigator sequence to the IAF when
instructed to proceed direct to the IAF. Either way, it is the same result
as the simpler activation procedure performed at the same point in time. If
that is not true, then I am missing something in the scenario. Perhaps a
simple example would help.

As far as I can determine, the self-activation feature is not mentioned in
the Garmin manuals. I believe another poster said the same. Personally, I
am a bit uneasy about using undocumented "features" of software in critical
situations. For one thing, we don't really know what is happening and if it
has even been tested. Does it do the required RAIM predictions prior to the
FAF? How would you know, unless it fails? Does this "feature" work under
all conditions? Another thing, you don't know if the "feature" will still
exist, or work the same way, if the software is updated.

I wonder what the response would be if one called Garmin and asked if they
approve using the navigator this way? Or the FAA?

Stan

On 2/17/2008 4:54 PM, Stan Prevost wrote the following:
snip

I wonder what the response would be if one called Garmin and asked if
they approve using the navigator this way?

Try it! I have had extremely good luck with Garmin tech support transferring me
to very knowledgeable people when I had something besides the usual RTFM
questions. My guess is that the manuals are the problem and that the behavior
is in the design spec.

"Mitty" wrote in message
...


On 2/17/2008 4:54 PM, Stan Prevost wrote the following:
snip

I wonder what the response would be if one called Garmin and asked if
they approve using the navigator this way?

Try it! I have had extremely good luck with Garmin tech support
transferring me to very knowledgeable people when I had something besides
the usual RTFM questions. My guess is that the manuals are the problem
and that the behavior is in the design spec.

I would call them if I understood why I might have anything to gain from
doing so. I don't yet understand how using the undocumented self-activation
"feature" helps anything.

Stan

Stan Prevost wrote:


"Mitty" wrote in message
...



On 2/17/2008 4:54 PM, Stan Prevost wrote the following:
snip


I wonder what the response would be if one called Garmin and asked if
they approve using the navigator this way?


Try it! I have had extremely good luck with Garmin tech support
transferring me to very knowledgeable people when I had something
besides the usual RTFM questions. My guess is that the manuals are
the problem and that the behavior is in the design spec.


I would call them if I understood why I might have anything to gain from
doing so. I don't yet understand how using the undocumented
self-activation "feature" helps anything.


It helps me in avoiding having to activate the approach at a possible
inopportune time.

Stan Prevost wrote:

"Mitty" wrote in message
...



On 2/17/2008 4:54 PM, Stan Prevost wrote the following:
snip


I wonder what the response would be if one called Garmin and asked if
they approve using the navigator this way?


Try it! I have had extremely good luck with Garmin tech support
transferring me to very knowledgeable people when I had something
besides the usual RTFM questions. My guess is that the manuals are
the problem and that the behavior is in the design spec.


I would call them if I understood why I might have anything to gain from
doing so. I don't yet understand how using the undocumented
self-activation "feature" helps anything.

Stan

Here is the official answer from my Garmin associate. He is about at
the top of the engineering food chain the

"Documented or not, I say what you are doing is fine.

We specifically designed the approach selection to do what you describe
because a pilot might learn on an ATIS frequency that he should expect a
particular approach/transition long before he's actually cleared for it.
So, the pilot can get ahead of the game by selecting the
approach/transition and placing it into the flight plan while still
navigating to the airport on his existing clearance. Then, once cleared
for the approach/transition, he can remove the airport from the flight
plan as you indicate, activate a direct-to the initial approach fix, or
whatever he is cleared to do to get established on the approach."

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Here is the official answer from my Garmin associate. He is about at the
top of the engineering food chain the

"Documented or not, I say what you are doing is fine.

We specifically designed the approach selection to do what you describe
because a pilot might learn on an ATIS frequency that he should expect a
particular approach/transition long before he's actually cleared for it.
So, the pilot can get ahead of the game by selecting the
approach/transition and placing it into the flight plan while still
navigating to the airport on his existing clearance. Then, once cleared
for the approach/transition, he can remove the airport from the flight
plan as you indicate, activate a direct-to the initial approach fix, or
whatever he is cleared to do to get established on the approach."


Thanks, Sam!

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:46:16 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:


Here is the official answer from my Garmin associate. He is about at
the top of the engineering food chain the

"Documented or not, I say what you are doing is fine.

We specifically designed the approach selection to do what you describe
because a pilot might learn on an ATIS frequency that he should expect a
particular approach/transition long before he's actually cleared for it.
So, the pilot can get ahead of the game by selecting the
approach/transition and placing it into the flight plan while still
navigating to the airport on his existing clearance. Then, once cleared
for the approach/transition, he can remove the airport from the flight
plan as you indicate, activate a direct-to the initial approach fix, or
whatever he is cleared to do to get established on the approach."

Thanks for looking into that Sam.