Stalls??

wrote in news:dc23e3cf-7070-4210-a22a-
:

On Feb 17, 9:05*am, wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:46 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Instructors who teach stall "feel" are still out here, but you have
to
spend some time finding the right ones.
When you find a CFI who tapes up the ASI and pulls the circuit
breaker
on the stall warning horn to teach you to "feel" the
airplane...GRAB
THEM, you've found the right one :-))

I have hear a few different people on this ng say things like this.
And yet if you fly by feel in an incursion into IMC, it kills (or can
kill) non instrument rated pilots. *Am I missing a step here? *Do you
have to learn by feel before you can learn by instrument?

Good question. Dudley's talking about flying in visual conditions.
Then, a pilot should be looking out the window as much as possible, in
part to see and avoid other aircraft. So it's good to be able to
perceive as much as possible without reference to the instruments
(even though some use of instruments, as a crosscheck for airspeed
etc., is ordinarily advisable even in visual flight; aviation is all
about redundancy).

But in instrument conditions, when you can't see anything out the
window, you can't keep the plane upright for long without using the
instruments. But even in those conditions, it's possible to perceive
such things as coordinated vs. uncoordinated flight, or the onset of a
stall, just by the feel of the plane. And it's good to be able to do
so, for the sake of redundancy, even though the instruments should be
giving you that information too.


True, but having said that, the ASI should e regarded with some
suspicion even IMC. Most pilots ( and I did this exercise in the sim the
other day) when presented with bad airspeed info will chase it in
preference to attitude info. this has caused lots of accidensts over the
years. Two I can remember off the top of my head are the 757 off the
coast of Peru, I think, and the 727 in upstate new york. I'm sure there
have been lots of others in light airplanes. It's amazing to watch. The
airspeed sems to run away and the guy just zeroes in on it and pulls or
pushes until the whole scene is just such a mess recovery would be a
miracle.


Bertie


Bertie

On Feb 17, 3:58*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
True, but having said that, the ASI should e regarded with some
suspicion even IMC. Most pilots ( and I did this exercise in the sim the
other day) when presented with bad airspeed info will chase it in
preference to attitude info. this has caused lots of accidensts over the
years. Two I can remember off the top of my head are the 757 off the
coast of Peru, I think, and the 727 in upstate new york. I'm sure there
have been lots of others in light airplanes. It's amazing to watch. The
airspeed sems to run away and the guy just zeroes in on it and pulls or
pushes until the whole scene is just such a mess recovery would be a
miracle.

Yeah, worst case is when the pitot freezes over or otherwise gets
sealed off, so the ASI says you're slowing down when you're speeding
up, and vice versa (because of the changing static-port pressure as
you climb or descend). In theory, the ASI should then be out-voted by
the altimeter and the attitude indicator, but I imagine it's tricky
(I've never experienced it myself).

That's one situation where the mushy response of a slow plane, or the
stiff controls and whooshing sound in a diving one, might be
especially helpful in augmenting what the instruments are saying (at
least for the light planes I fly--dunno how well that applies to
airliners).

wrote in news:c2611450-2801-4cb7-9fc9-
:

On Feb 17, 3:58*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
True, but having said that, the ASI should e regarded with some
suspicion even IMC. Most pilots ( and I did this exercise in the sim
the
other day) when presented with bad airspeed info will chase it in
preference to attitude info. this has caused lots of accidensts over
the
years. Two I can remember off the top of my head are the 757 off the
coast of Peru, I think, and the 727 in upstate new york. I'm sure
there
have been lots of others in light airplanes. It's amazing to watch.
The
airspeed sems to run away and the guy just zeroes in on it and pulls
or
pushes until the whole scene is just such a mess recovery would be a
miracle.

Yeah, worst case is when the pitot freezes over or otherwise gets
sealed off, so the ASI says you're slowing down when you're speeding
up, and vice versa (because of the changing static-port pressure as
you climb or descend). In theory, the ASI should then be out-voted by
the altimeter and the attitude indicator, but I imagine it's tricky
(I've never experienced it myself).

I have a couple of times and I had no problem, but apparently it can be.
it certainly gives you a jolt when you see it. I had it in a Twin Beech
once and the airspeed instantly went to the barberpole. Had it in some
singles as well I t doesn't take much to clog them.

That's one situation where the mushy response of a slow plane, or the
stiff controls and whooshing sound in a diving one, might be
especially helpful in augmenting what the instruments are saying (at
least for the light planes I fly--dunno how well that applies to
airliners).

It's the same, though the feel is simulated through an artificial system
that is reliant on.. you guessed it, airspeed! Older airplanes had
dedicated pitots for this ( you can see them on the fin of older
Boeings) but newer machines tend to use the air data computer which is
fed by standad pitots on the nose.

Bertie