Airline Pilots Fly Past Airport at 20,000'

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:32:26 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii


Hell, yes.


Does that mean that their CRM procedures tolerated one pilot asleep on
the job, or did they both fall asleep simultaneously?


Probably were both exhausted by a schedule that was marginally legal but ill
advised.

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.

I would imagine it was not through choice... the company probably
stuck them with it and gave them the choice of fly or quit.

It happens all the time. Believe me, those two weren't the only ones asleep at
the wheel that day. They just got caught.

Well, thankfully ATC kept calling them before they got out of range.

A little more info:

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to Hilo.
Local TV station KGMB9
(http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/)
said it obtained a radar track of the flight, which showed it
stayed at 21,000 feet and flew past the Hilo airport about 15
miles out to sea before turning around and returning to descend.
Air traffic controllers reportedly tried to contact the pilots for
25 minutes and got no response.

Larry Dighera wrote:
Probably were both exhausted by a schedule that was marginally legal but ill
advised.

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.



Once upon a time when I was a part 135 cargo pilot, I got a call from my
employer at around 0900 saying that I was needed to fly some auto parts from
Shelby, NC to Cleveland, OH. She said to start getting ready and she'd call me
back with the details in a half hour or so. Well, she called back about 15
minutes later saying the vendor didn't have enough of the parts to justify the
flight and so it was off.

That night, as I was getting ready for bed at 2330, I got another call from the
dispatcher saying the flight was on again, and that I was expected at Shelby for
a 0100 pickup. I needed to be at the Charlotte airport by about 1215 to make it
over to Shelby on time. So off I went.

Without boring you with the details, I fought some killer 60-70 knot headwinds
and ice on the way up there and ended up making an intermediate fuel stop at
Charleston, WV (after shooting the ILS), then into Cleveland with another ILS.

After taking on more fuel, I took off again into IMC but soon climbed on top and
settled in for a screaming cruise (now I had all that wind behind me). After
about an hour I switched to the inboard aux tanks.

I woke up when the right engine quit. As I reached over to change tanks and hit
the boost, the other engine quit as well. I remember marveling at how
accurately I'd leaned those engines. Anyway, the C-402 engines relit very
quickly and I was on my way again with no one the wiser. I promised God I would
never fall asleep flying again.

I broke that promise twice more on the remainder of the flight. I touched down
shortly after dawn at Charlotte.

Now, was my flight time in excess of the allowable. No. And my employer could
make the argument that my duty day didn't start until 2330. So what was
illegal? Nothing, I guess. But I sure was a whipped pup.

So the Hawaiian episode happened at 0900? I'd be very curious to see what
they'd been doing for the last 48 hours. And sitting at an airport waiting in
uniform doesn't constitute crew rest to me. Nor does the time spent in taxis.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Thanks for relating your firsthand experience.

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:18:26 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

That night, as I was getting ready for bed at 2330, I got another call from the
dispatcher saying the flight was on again, and that I was expected at Shelby for
a 0100 pickup. I needed to be at the Charlotte airport by about 1215 to make it
over to Shelby on time. So off I went.

Was that an FAA certificated Dispatcher?
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_i...PI_6_1_4_O.doc

http://www.fltdisp.com/TheDispatchCa...7/Default.aspx

Larry Dighera wrote:
That night, as I was getting ready for bed at 2330, I got another call from
the dispatcher saying the flight was on again, and that I was expected at
Shelby for a 0100 pickup. I needed to be at the Charlotte airport by about
1215 to make it over to Shelby on time. So off I went.

Was that an FAA certificated Dispatcher?
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_i...PI_6_1_4_O.doc

http://www.fltdisp.com/TheDispatchCa...7/Default.aspx


She was a company dispatcher. I have no idea what other credentials she held.
This was back around 1990 and the company went tango uniform not three weeks
later.

Pity. Not only was I out of a job, I had just completed the ground school on
the C-47. We had two of them and I never got to actually fly either. I did
pinch a manual, however.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

Thanks for relating your firsthand experience.

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:18:26 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

That night, as I was getting ready for bed at 2330, I got another call
from the dispatcher saying the flight was on again, and that I was
expected at Shelby for a 0100 pickup. I needed to be at the Charlotte
airport by about 1215 to make it over to Shelby on time. So off I
went.

Was that an FAA certificated Dispatcher?
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_i...atos/library/d
ata_collection/media/EPI_6_1_4_O.doc


WTF is the difference?

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Regulations don't keep people awake, fjukkwit.


bertie

Larry Dighera wrote:

A little more info:

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to Hilo.
Local TV station KGMB9
(http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/)
said it obtained a radar track of the flight, which showed it
stayed at 21,000 feet and flew past the Hilo airport about 15
miles out to sea before turning around and returning to descend.
Air traffic controllers reportedly tried to contact the pilots for
25 minutes and got no response.

On the CVR: "Hey, Bob, c'mon,stop screwing around. I distinctly remember
it was *your* turn to set the new password on the autopilot this morning."

In article ,
Roy Smith wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

A little more info:

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to Hilo.
Local TV station KGMB9
(http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/)
said it obtained a radar track of the flight, which showed it
stayed at 21,000 feet and flew past the Hilo airport about 15
miles out to sea before turning around and returning to descend.
Air traffic controllers reportedly tried to contact the pilots for
25 minutes and got no response.

On the CVR: "Hey, Bob, c'mon,stop screwing around. I distinctly remember
it was *your* turn to set the new password on the autopilot this morning."

Alternate version: "OK, you said it was, Keep the needle on W and land when
you've counted 3 islands, right? Or was it 4 islands?"

Larry Dighera writes:

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.

The world of airlines has little connection to local time. Pilots can be
tired at any time of day.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to Hilo.

They could still be too tired to stay awake, depending on what happened prior
to that flight.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Larry Dighera writes:

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.

The world of airlines has little connection to local time. Pilots can
be tired at any time of day.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to
Hilo.

They could still be too tired to stay awake, depending on what
happened prior to that flight.


You are, of course, alos an idiot and don't know what you're talking about.


Bertie

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:32:26 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii


Hell, yes.


Does that mean that their CRM procedures tolerated one pilot asleep
on the job, or did they both fall asleep simultaneously?


Probably were both exhausted by a schedule that was marginally legal
but ill advised.

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.

I would imagine it was not through choice... the company probably
stuck them with it and gave them the choice of fly or quit.

It happens all the time. Believe me, those two weren't the only ones
asleep at the wheel that day. They just got caught.

Well, thankfully ATC kept calling them before they got out of range.=


you have no idea what you're talking about.


Bertie