Is this the death of GA

" wrote in
:

On Feb 23, 3:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
" wrote
innews:b73e40b0-849e-4e59-9b72-

m:



It's true that aviation costs have increased, but the price of
everything has increased as the value of money changes over time
(always less value per unit)

Aviation has never been "cheap."

$5.00 2008 dollars equals 81 cents in 1967 dollars. (
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/)

So $25/ hour rental for an airplane in 1975 should be $104 in
today's dollars.

Which is about right.

When my father flew in the late 60s and early 70s, he paid $25/
hour (wet) for a Cherokee 140 as a member of a club ($25/month
dues).

Then he was paying over twice what he would have at an FBO.

In 1069 a Cessna 150 was 8-10 an hour and a cherokee was 12-15

Bertie

True.

But, this was in Jersey (Caldwell) where everything is always far more
expensive for the dubious privilege of experiencing it in New Jersey.

Everybody hates New Jersey -- but somebody has to live there.

This was also in New Jersey... A cherokee wouldn't have hit 25 an hour
until the late seventies at least.





Bertie

On Feb 23, 4:19 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
" wrote :

On Feb 23, 3:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
" wrote
innews:b73e40b0-849e-4e59-9b72-





m:

It's true that aviation costs have increased, but the price of
everything has increased as the value of money changes over time
(always less value per unit)

Aviation has never been "cheap."

$5.00 2008 dollars equals 81 cents in 1967 dollars. (
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/)

So $25/ hour rental for an airplane in 1975 should be $104 in
today's dollars.

Which is about right.

When my father flew in the late 60s and early 70s, he paid $25/
hour (wet) for a Cherokee 140 as a member of a club ($25/month
dues).

Then he was paying over twice what he would have at an FBO.

In 1069 a Cessna 150 was 8-10 an hour and a cherokee was 12-15

Bertie

True.

But, this was in Jersey (Caldwell) where everything is always far more
expensive for the dubious privilege of experiencing it in New Jersey.

Everybody hates New Jersey -- but somebody has to live there.

This was also in New Jersey... A cherokee wouldn't have hit 25 an hour
until the late seventies at least.

Bertie

Hmm..

Probably the case -- I don't think I paid attention to anything more
than $10 until '73 or so...

I'll amend and say when he told me how much it cost I remember $25/
hour.

that was 74ish..?

" wrote in
:

On Feb 23, 4:19 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
" wrote
innews:6188c88e-8824-4ce1-ab15-e7e3822d91c9
@o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.c
om:

On Feb 23, 3:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
" wrote
innews:b73e40b0-849e-4e59-9b72-





m:

It's true that aviation costs have increased, but the price of
everything has increased as the value of money changes over time
(always less value per unit)

Aviation has never been "cheap."

$5.00 2008 dollars equals 81 cents in 1967 dollars. (
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/)

So $25/ hour rental for an airplane in 1975 should be $104 in
today's dollars.

Which is about right.

When my father flew in the late 60s and early 70s, he paid $25/
hour (wet) for a Cherokee 140 as a member of a club ($25/month
dues).

Then he was paying over twice what he would have at an FBO.

In 1069 a Cessna 150 was 8-10 an hour and a cherokee was 12-15

Bertie

True.

But, this was in Jersey (Caldwell) where everything is always far
more expensive for the dubious privilege of experiencing it in New
Jersey.

Everybody hates New Jersey -- but somebody has to live there.

This was also in New Jersey... A cherokee wouldn't have hit 25 an
hour until the late seventies at least.

Bertie

Hmm..

Probably the case -- I don't think I paid attention to anything more
than $10 until '73 or so...

I'll amend and say when he told me how much it cost I remember $25/
hour.

that was 74ish..?


Nah, much later for a Cherokee 140,. and that was at an FBO. remember,
gas was only a bit over 60 cents a gallon in 74. Even in 78 I remember
flying a Citabria for under 20 an hour and that has the same engine. I
was paying $14 an hour for a 172, club rates, in 1976. That was wet
BTW. I think Monthly dues were about the same. If you were in the NYC
area it was probably a few bucks more, but only a few.

Bertie

On Feb 23, 5:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


that was 74ish..?

Nah, much later for a Cherokee 140,. and that was at an FBO. remember,
gas was only a bit over 60 cents a gallon in 74. Even in 78 I remember
flying a Citabria for under 20 an hour and that has the same engine. I
was paying $14 an hour for a 172, club rates, in 1976. That was wet
BTW. I think Monthly dues were about the same. If you were in the NYC
area it was probably a few bucks more, but only a few.

Bertie

$20/hour in 76 would be $76/hour today. $14 = $53.

Any 172s here in Western Pennsylvania run around $90/hour at an FBO.

Based on this (albeit tiny) data, we can assume the costs of aviation
have exceeded net inflation.

I would expect the additional costs would be due to the faster-than-
inflation rise in the cost of insurance + and the cost of replacement
parts (most parts have insurance costs embedded in them as well).

An interesting study would be the liability insurance burden of the
cost of an airplane built in 1974 and one built in 2008.

But there has to be a cost reduction factor as well, due to increased
efficiency in all aspects of production.

Any economists or industry savvy CPAs care to chime in?

Dan

" wrote in news:fffc515b-81e9-
:

On Feb 23, 5:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


that was 74ish..?

Nah, much later for a Cherokee 140,. and that was at an FBO.
remember,
gas was only a bit over 60 cents a gallon in 74. Even in 78 I
remember
flying a Citabria for under 20 an hour and that has the same engine.
I
was paying $14 an hour for a 172, club rates, in 1976. That was wet
BTW. I think Monthly dues were about the same. If you were in the NYC
area it was probably a few bucks more, but only a few.

Bertie

$20/hour in 76 would be $76/hour today. $14 = $53.

Any 172s here in Western Pennsylvania run around $90/hour at an FBO.

Based on this (albeit tiny) data, we can assume the costs of aviation
have exceeded net inflation.

Definitely.

I would expect the additional costs would be due to the faster-than-
inflation rise in the cost of insurance + and the cost of replacement
parts (most parts have insurance costs embedded in them as well).

An interesting study would be the liability insurance burden of the
cost of an airplane built in 1974 and one built in 2008.

But there has to be a cost reduction factor as well, due to increased
efficiency in all aspects of production.

Well, we're still flying the same airplanes for the most part!

I think theyre mor expensive to buy new as well..


Bertie

On Feb 23, 6:38 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

An interesting study would be the liability insurance burden of the
cost of an airplane built in 1974 and one built in 2008.

But there has to be a cost reduction factor as well, due to increased
efficiency in all aspects of production.

Well, we're still flying the same airplanes for the most part!

I think theyre mor expensive to buy new as well..

Bertie

True! The majority of SEL available to rent in 2008 are pre 1980
vintage.

Though I can't complain about that, as I fly a 1947 Straight 35 (V
tail) from time to time.

How much is a new 172 today? $250k? It would have to cost $60k in 1975
to be equivalent.

With the focus of liability suits towards the deepest pockets, I'm
sure a huge chuck of any new a/c price is cash for the war chest.

Dan

" wrote in news:9f6a9de2-527a-
:

On Feb 23, 6:38 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

An interesting study would be the liability insurance burden of the
cost of an airplane built in 1974 and one built in 2008.

But there has to be a cost reduction factor as well, due to
increased
efficiency in all aspects of production.

Well, we're still flying the same airplanes for the most part!

I think theyre mor expensive to buy new as well..

Bertie

True! The majority of SEL available to rent in 2008 are pre 1980
vintage.

Though I can't complain about that, as I fly a 1947 Straight 35 (V
tail) from time to time.

How much is a new 172 today? $250k? It would have to cost $60k in 1975
to be equivalent.

I don't think they were even near that much. Probably about half that.
Maybe a bit more.

With the focus of liability suits towards the deepest pockets, I'm
sure a huge chuck of any new a/c price is cash for the war chest.

Yeah, more than likely.


Bertie