Wow

On Mar 2, 9:41*pm, Jim Stewart wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Much snippage...

technique. I have a frined who flies the 777 and he tells me it flies
just like an airplane.

Ok, I'll bite. *What airplanes don't fly like airplanes?

Well, some of the older airliners had some interesting and challenging
quirks. They were not very speed stable on approach, wallowed around like a *
milk van and could develop rates of descent on approach that could plant
you in seconds if you weren;'t careful. Then there's the FBW Airbusses.
Every time I talk to one of those guys I walk away more confused about how
the flight controls work than I was before. Others, most of the 4 engine
contraptions, for instance, have to be landed wings level. The nmost recent
crop handle quite nicely, don't have spool up times stretching towards ten
seconds and just generaly are pleasant to handle. The satisfaction in
handling the older jets came mostly from tricking them into doing what you
wanted them to!

What did you think of the 727? *In my youth I flew a lot
as a 727 pax. *There was always something reassuring
about having 3 people up front and 3 big ole engines in
the back. *Engines that you could fsking feel when the
levers were pushed all the way forward. *A real airplane
for passengers that love planes.

Then there was the time I asked if I could sit up front.
The copilot graciously apologized for not being able to
let me, but he kindly offered to let me tag along as he
preflighted the a/c. *Those were the good old days.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The good old days, sure mis them. I flew in a PanAm 747 a few imes
and an Eatern 727 once as a kid and remember getting the wing from the
PanAm crew. Too bad I lost that wing.

The good old days when kids get wings from pilots, fire hats from
firemen and badges from policemen. I jnow the firemen still give out
fire hats at open houses, but the cops are no longer someone that
kidslook up to anymore. At least not around here.

Wil

---------------------clip-----------------

The good old days, sure mis them. I flew in a PanAm 747 a few imes
and an Eatern 727 once as a kid and remember getting the wing from the
PanAm crew. Too bad I lost that wing.

The good old days when kids get wings from pilots, fire hats from
firemen and badges from policemen. I jnow the firemen still give out
fire hats at open houses, but the cops are no longer someone that
kidslook up to anymore. At least not around here.

*********************************

Wil

Are you talking about the "Leg Spreaders" they used to hand out?

I still have a set in my box of old airplane memorabilia )

Big John

On Mar 3, 10:44*am, Big John wrote:
---------------------clip-----------------

The good old days, sure mis them. *I flew in a PanAm 747 a few imes
and an Eatern 727 once as a kid and remember getting the wing from the
PanAm crew. *Too bad I lost that wing.

The good old days when kids get wings from pilots, fire hats from
firemen and badges from policemen. *I jnow the firemen still give out
fire hats at open houses, but the cops are no longer someone that
kidslook up to anymore. *At least not around here.

*********************************

Wil

Are you talking about the "Leg Spreaders" they used to hand out?

I still have a set in my box of old airplane memorabilia )

Big John

Don't quite follow you with the "Leg Spreaders", but if you are
refering to the bush jumpers wings, I've seen them. lol I meant the
plastic captain's wings that they gave out. :-)

Thinking back, I remember we kids would run up to police cars when
they showed up in our 'hood'. We would bug them to turn on the sirens
and lights and they would hand out plastic badges. Now kids look the
other way when they see cops.

Shame really.

Wil

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:10:55 -0800 (PST), William Hung
wrote:

On Mar 3, 10:44*am, Big John wrote:
---------------------clip-----------------

The good old days, sure mis them. *I flew in a PanAm 747 a few imes
and an Eatern 727 once as a kid and remember getting the wing from the
PanAm crew. *Too bad I lost that wing.

The good old days when kids get wings from pilots, fire hats from
firemen and badges from policemen. *I jnow the firemen still give out
fire hats at open houses, but the cops are no longer someone that
kidslook up to anymore. *At least not around here.

*********************************

Wil

Are you talking about the "Leg Spreaders" they used to hand out?

I still have a set in my box of old airplane memorabilia )

Big John

Don't quite follow you with the "Leg Spreaders", but if you are
refering to the bush jumpers wings, I've seen them. lol I meant the
plastic captain's wings that they gave out. :-)

Thinking back, I remember we kids would run up to police cars when
they showed up in our 'hood'. We would bug them to turn on the sirens
and lights and they would hand out plastic badges. Now kids look the
other way when they see cops.

Shame really.

Wil


************************************************** ***

Wil

In olden days pilots were a good catch for young ladies. If you had a
set of wings to wear it was half the battle ) They all wanted to go
out with you )

The wings were metal like real ones but nothing in center saying what
airline, etc.

These were probably even before Berties time )

Big John

On Mar 3, 11:43*am, Big John wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:10:55 -0800 (PST), William Hung





wrote:
On Mar 3, 10:44*am, Big John wrote:
---------------------clip-----------------

The good old days, sure mis them. *I flew in a PanAm 747 a few imes
and an Eatern 727 once as a kid and remember getting the wing from the
PanAm crew. *Too bad I lost that wing.

The good old days when kids get wings from pilots, fire hats from
firemen and badges from policemen. *I jnow the firemen still give out
fire hats at open houses, but the cops are no longer someone that
kidslook up to anymore. *At least not around here.

*********************************

Wil

Are you talking about the "Leg Spreaders" they used to hand out?

I still have a set in my box of old airplane memorabilia )

Big John

Don't quite follow you with the "Leg Spreaders", but if you are
refering to the bush jumpers wings, I've seen them. lol *I meant the
plastic captain's wings that they gave out. :-)

Thinking back, I remember we kids would run up to police cars when
they showed up in our 'hood'. *We would bug them to turn on the sirens
and lights and they would hand out plastic badges. *Now kids look the
other way when they see cops.

Shame really.

Wil

************************************************** ***

Wil

In olden days pilots were a good catch for young ladies. If you had a
set of wings to wear it was half the battle ) They all wanted to go
out with you )

The wings were metal like real ones but nothing in center saying what
airline, etc.

These were probably even before Berties time )

Big John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So john, tell us about soe of your sorties in Nam. I would also like
to hear some of the R&R stories as well.

Wil

--------------clip---------------

So john, tell us about some of your sorties in Nam. I would also like
to hear some of the R&R stories as well.

Wil


************************************************** ****************

Will

Nam was very much like other conflict/wars.

Lost some close friends and acquaintances.
Killed enemy.
Got shot at.

I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

I lost two of my pilotsout of about 35 during my tour.

First was buzzing returning from mission and ran into a tree top
killing him and the ARVN observer.

Other was in mountainous terrain and a high wind that day. Just never
came back and never found. Best guess was that he got trapped in a
canyon and with wind and mountain gusts couldn't get turned around????

My order of best close air support fighters 'in country'.

Spooky's in a class by them selves.

A-1 and AT-37 about equal and best for close air support. Both slow,
long mission duration so could hold over battlefield and wall to wall
ordnance.

F-100 good all around bird. Could normally hit target.

F-4 not a good CAS bird. Very hard to get them to hit marked target.

F-105. During bombing pause in north, sent me a flight of 105's to use
in troops in contact. With TIC you had to be very careful not to hit
your friendly's. When the 105's checked in they said all they could
give me was one pass. I marked target and they rolled in as a flight
from 20k pickled everything and with the burners running pulled out
and headed for home in Thailand. They threw bombs all over the area
and just lucky they were so poor a shot or they would have killed
some friendly's. Their delivery was what they did in north VN but
worthless in south VN. I called Saigon and told them not to send any
more 105's to Two Corps and what had happened. They then just gave the
105's a stand down in Thailand.

During TET I launched after things broke (about 01:00) and flew till
dawn to have a FAC airborne. They started shooting at me and I could
see the tracers so just turned my lights off and flew blacked out.

Had a flight of F-100's and we had just poked a hornets nest when my
engine quit ( Didn't wan't to go down where we had stirred them up
so did all the good things and finally got engine running again. told
the flight leader I had lost engine and he offered to escort me back
to home base. I told him to stay with me until I got back over Hwy 1
(which ran the full length of county north and south and had lots of
friendly traffic all day on it). When I got over Hwy told fighters
thanks and released them and both of us flew home. Bird check out ok
on ground so was kept on schedule. A couple of days latter it did the
same thing with one of my pilots and he also made it back. We took to
support Sq and they put a new engine in. Looking back, I think the
problem was probably the mixture. We ran pretty lean as SOP.

Got a call one day from Spooky CO and wanted a joint mission with a
FAC. There was a village near Pleiku that was giving them ground fire
on their night missions. Rendezvoused with the Gooney after dark and
they started dropping flares. I flew under the flares where I could be
seen from ground. As soon as I started getting fire, Spooky opened up
and zapped them. We did this several times until they had cleaned out
that nest.

Nothing like D-day but each day was something new for me.

On numerous occasions had Army troops come up to me and thank me for
saving their life. Told them our mission was to help the Grunts )

Just some more ramblings Will.

Was ALO to 7th ARVN at My Tho. Story was told that Martha Ray had
visited a few weeks before I arrived and she got in 0-1 and was taken
on a combat mission. Saigon turned their eyes on her activities in VN.
Troops at all levels loved her maybe more than Bob Hope as she went to
the small units that Bob didn't visit. He did good but she may have
done better. She also had nurses training and helped medically on many
occasions. Sorry to see her pass.

Provided back up support for some Seal operations.

Landed by a line of idling Huey's. One didn't have his collective full
flat pitch. As I went buy the down wash blew me over almost on my
back.

Army Hueys used to land at our little laterite (clay) strip to refuel
and re-arm. In heat of summer with full fuel and a full load of 2.75
Inch FFAR's they couldn't lift off and then accelerate to translation
so they would put on max power and max blade rotation (both probably
over red line?) and then add collective and bird would jump in air and
then fall back to ground. They kept some forward stick in and each
time they jumped they got a little more forward speed and eventually
they got into translation and started flying. As their speed built up
they then could start to climb. These takeoffs always scared me as
they fell back and hit so hard. I expected them to explode but all I
watched made it ok.

We may have some chopper pilots who can expand on this technique???

Went to Hong Kong and landing at the old airport was just like I had
read about. Buildings above final approach altitude off both wing tips
and wheels just above roof tops. Touch down and full brakes and
reverse and just stopped 100 feet from end of runway (and harbor)
normal landing.

Enough chit chat. All from a time long ago and a war far away.

Big John

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:18:39 -0600, Big John
wrote:

--------------clip---------------

So john, tell us about some of your sorties in Nam. I would also like
to hear some of the R&R stories as well.

Wil


************************************************* *****************

Will

Nam was very much like other conflict/wars.

Lost some close friends and acquaintances.
Killed enemy.
Got shot at.

I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

I lost two of my pilotsout of about 35 during my tour.

First was buzzing returning from mission and ran into a tree top
killing him and the ARVN observer.

Other was in mountainous terrain and a high wind that day. Just never
came back and never found. Best guess was that he got trapped in a
canyon and with wind and mountain gusts couldn't get turned around????

My order of best close air support fighters 'in country'.

Spooky's in a class by them selves.

My cousin played bait/target in the little Bell 47s.
He also flew Hueys (with guns on skids). Took in a bunch of troops,
came under fire. Used Huey to block fire and took out enemy. Huey went
down and burned with all on board. He didn't get out. Had Silver Star
waiting from previous mission that he never knew he earned.

It was written up on popasmoke. There used to be quite a story there,
but I see they just have the essentials now..
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mar 6, 3:18*pm, Big John wrote:
--------------clip---------------

So john, tell us about some of your sorties in Nam. *I would also like
to hear some of the R&R stories as well.

Wil

************************************************** ****************

Will

Nam was very much like other conflict/wars.

Lost some close friends and acquaintances.
Killed enemy.
Got shot at.

I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

I lost two of my pilotsout of about 35 during my tour.

First was buzzing returning from mission and ran into a tree top
killing him and the ARVN observer.

Other was in mountainous terrain and a high wind that day. Just never
came back and never found. Best guess was that he got trapped in a
canyon and with wind and mountain gusts couldn't get turned around????

My order of best close air support fighters 'in country'.

Spooky's in a class by them selves.

A-1 and AT-37 about equal and best for close air support. Both slow,
long mission duration so could hold over battlefield and wall to wall
ordnance.

F-100 good all around bird. Could normally hit target.

F-4 not a good CAS bird. Very hard to get them to hit marked target.

F-105. During bombing pause in north, sent me a flight of 105's to use
in troops in contact. With TIC you had to be very careful not to hit
your friendly's. When the 105's checked in they said all they could
give me was one pass. I marked target and they rolled in as a flight
from 20k pickled everything and with the burners running pulled out
and headed for home in Thailand. They threw bombs all over the area
and just lucky they were so poor a *shot or they would have killed
some friendly's. Their delivery was what they did in north VN but
worthless in south VN. I called Saigon and told them not to send any
more 105's to Two Corps and what had happened. They then just gave the
105's a stand down in Thailand.

During TET I launched after things broke (about 01:00) and flew till
dawn to have a FAC airborne. They started shooting at me and I could
see the tracers so just turned my lights off and flew blacked out.

Had a flight of F-100's and we had just poked a hornets nest when my
engine quit ( Didn't wan't to go down where we had stirred them up
so did all the good things and finally got engine running again. told
the flight leader I had lost engine and he offered to escort me back
to home base. I told him to stay with me until I got back over Hwy 1
(which ran the full length of county north and south and had lots of
friendly traffic all day on it). When I got over Hwy told fighters
thanks and released them and both of us flew home. Bird check out ok
on ground so was kept on schedule. A couple of days latter it did the
same thing with one of my pilots and he also made it back. We took to
support Sq and they put a new engine in. Looking back, I think the
problem was probably the mixture. We ran pretty lean as SOP.

Got a call one day from Spooky CO and wanted a joint mission with a
FAC. There was a village near Pleiku that was giving them ground fire
on their night missions. Rendezvoused with the Gooney after dark and
they started dropping flares. I flew under the flares where I could be
seen from ground. As soon as I started getting fire, Spooky opened up
and zapped them. We did this several times until they had cleaned out
that nest.

Nothing like D-day but each day was something new for me.

On numerous occasions had Army troops come up to me and thank me for
saving their life. Told them our mission was to help the Grunts )

Just some more ramblings Will.

Was ALO to 7th ARVN at My Tho. Story was told that Martha Ray had
visited a few weeks before I arrived and she got in 0-1 and was taken
on a combat mission. Saigon turned their eyes on her activities in VN.
Troops at all levels loved her maybe more than Bob Hope as she went to
the small units that Bob didn't visit. He did good but she may have
done better. She also had nurses training and helped medically on many
occasions. Sorry to see her pass.

Provided back up support for some Seal operations.

Landed by a line of idling Huey's. One didn't have his collective full
flat pitch. As I went buy the down wash blew me over almost on my
back.

Army Hueys used to land at our little laterite (clay) strip to refuel
and re-arm. In heat of summer with full fuel and a full load of 2.75
Inch FFAR's they couldn't lift off and then accelerate to translation
so they would put on max power and max blade rotation (both probably
over red line?) and then add collective and bird would jump in air and
then fall back to ground. They kept some forward stick in and each
time they jumped they got a little more forward speed and eventually
they got into translation and started flying. As their speed built up
they then could start to climb. These takeoffs always scared me as
they fell back and hit so hard. I expected them to explode but all I
watched made it ok.

We may have some chopper pilots who can expand on this technique???

Went to Hong Kong and landing at the old airport was just like I had
read about. Buildings above final approach altitude off both wing tips
and wheels just above roof tops. Touch down and full brakes and
reverse and just stopped 100 feet from end of runway (and harbor)
normal landing.

Enough chit chat. All from a time long ago and a war far away.

Big John

Thanks John. Great reading, you should write some more and some day
put them all together into a book.

Wil

"William Hung" wrote in message
...

The good old days, sure mis them. I flew in a PanAm 747 a few imes
and an Eatern 727 once as a kid and remember getting the wing from the
PanAm crew. Too bad I lost that wing.

The good old days when kids get wings from pilots, fire hats from firemen
and badges from policemen. I jnow the firemen still give out
fire hats at open houses, but the cops are no longer someone that kidslook
up to anymore. At least not around here.

Two years ago I stopped a gaggle of shoppers from jaywalking into traffic in
downtown Portland. After they finally crossed, an officer that was standing
right there poked my arm and then gave me a Junior Crime Fighter sticker.
Apparently he'd been passing them out to kids. I hadn't even noticed him
there. But, no matter.

I'm a Junior Crime Fighter. Respect my authoritah!

As for the airlines, I must have kept my United and Continental wings until
I was a teenager. I can still remember what they looked like. If you think
about it, that's some inexpensive long-term advertising.

-c

gatt wrote:
"William Hung" wrote in message
...

The good old days, sure mis them. I flew in a PanAm 747 a few imes
and an Eatern 727 once as a kid and remember getting the wing from the
PanAm crew. Too bad I lost that wing.

The good old days when kids get wings from pilots, fire hats from firemen
and badges from policemen. I jnow the firemen still give out
fire hats at open houses, but the cops are no longer someone that kidslook
up to anymore. At least not around here.

Two years ago I stopped a gaggle of shoppers from jaywalking into traffic in
downtown Portland. After they finally crossed, an officer that was standing
right there poked my arm and then gave me a Junior Crime Fighter sticker.
Apparently he'd been passing them out to kids. I hadn't even noticed him
there. But, no matter.

I'm a Junior Crime Fighter. Respect my authoritah!

As for the airlines, I must have kept my United and Continental wings until
I was a teenager. I can still remember what they looked like. If you think
about it, that's some inexpensive long-term advertising.

I kept a pair of PanAm headphones. Does that count?