A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven

On Mar 7, 6:48*am, stol wrote:
On Mar 6, 11:03*pm, cavelamb himself wrote:





Jim Logajan wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote:

The FAA is about to make it a whole hell of a lot harder for people to
build safe amateur built aircraft. Richard VanGrunsven, founder of one
of the most successful kit aircraft companies, has written up a
warning and a call to arms about the issue. You can read it beginning
on page 3 of this document:

http://doc.vansaircraft.com/RVator/2...008-RVator.pdf

Also consider using this site (to save Vans Aircraft some bandwidth load):

http://www.vansairforce.net/rvator/1-2008-RVator.pdf

Sounds more like they want to make it harder to_have_one_built_for_you.

* These articles explain the FAA's concerns over excessive commercial
abuses of the Experimental Amateur Built (E-AB) licensing category.
The ARC committee was created as an FAA/EAA/ Industry process to address
the FAA concerns and to recommend corrective actions.

I agree with the , " harder to have one built for you" concept.. I
have been to several airshows-fly-ins etc, and chat with experimental
owners who sit under the wings of their *bought homebuilts and bask in
the glow of,, See what I built crap. Later in the conversation they
usually say " Yeah, Ol Clem up in Montana, Texas, Florida", pick a
state, " did a great job of building my wizbang 200 mph toy. In my
mind they are lying sacks of **** and with this action are poking
their finger in the eyes of the FAA. The intent of experimental /
homebuilts rule was for the " educational and recreational aspect of
the builder, not to see who has the most money.. IMHO.

Ben- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree with you to a certain point. I think that there arepeople out
there who are better off having 'one made for them' than to have them
make it themselves. I know people will say, 'so let them get a
certified one!' Well... just well...

Wil

"William Hung" wrote I agree with you to a certain
point. I think that there arepeople out
there who are better off having 'one made for them' than to have them
make it themselves. I know people will say, 'so let them get a
certified one!' Well... just well...

They still have the freedom to go out and buy an experimental that was
constructed by someone else, under the rights allowed the person that built
it, as educational/recreational.

Until the regulations are change to allow people to build airplanes for
hire, and not have to be certified, that is the only way to go, except the
limitations of LSA.

You don't like a reg, get it changed. You don't have the right to screw it
up for me, when I decide to build-legally, under the current amateur built
provisions.
--
Jim in NC

On Mar 7, 10:07*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote I agree with you to a certain
point. *I think that there arepeople out
there who are better off having 'one made for them' than to have them
make it themselves. *I know people will say, 'so let them get a
certified one!' *Well... just well...

They still have the freedom to go out and buy an experimental that was
constructed by someone else, under the rights allowed the person that built
it, as educational/recreational.

Until the regulations are change to allow people to build airplanes for
hire, and not have to be certified, that is the only way to go, except the
limitations of LSA.

You don't like a reg, get it changed. *You don't have the right to screw it
up for me, when I decide to build-legally, under the current amateur built
provisions.
--
Jim in NC

It's not that I don't like the reg or wanting them changed, I just
want to be able to get help on my project if I get to a point where I
think, 'Hey maybe I'm not so confident about doing this part myself'.
I am still thinking about building my own plane, but that time hasn't
yet arrived.

I can see stol's point of view that there are people out there with
more money than brains. People who pay pros to do their work an
claiming credit for it. Those people are slimeballs, I agree.

Wil

William Hung wrote in
:

On Mar 7, 10:07*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote I agree with you to a
certain point. *I think that there arepeople out
there who are better off having 'one made for them' than to have them
make it themselves. *I know people will say, 'so let them get a
certified one!' *Well... just well...

They still have the freedom to go out and buy an experimental that
was constructed by someone else, under the rights allowed the person
that buil
t
it, as educational/recreational.

Until the regulations are change to allow people to build airplanes
for hire, and not have to be certified, that is the only way to go,
except the

limitations of LSA.

You don't like a reg, get it changed. *You don't have the right to
screw
it
up for me, when I decide to build-legally, under the current amateur
built

provisions.
--
Jim in NC

It's not that I don't like the reg or wanting them changed, I just
want to be able to get help on my project if I get to a point where I
think, 'Hey maybe I'm not so confident about doing this part myself'.
I am still thinking about building my own plane, but that time hasn't
yet arrived.

That's no problem. That's sinificantly different from writing a check
and having someone build one for you. The airplanes in that class
usually are available with center sections built and so on, so there;s
no excuse to take it further.

I can see stol's point of view that there are people out there with
more money than brains. People who pay pros to do their work an
claiming credit for it. Those people are slimeballs, I agree.


And the more salient point is there are slimeballs out there who will
sell you an airplane that is a deathtrap..

Time for Juan Jiminez to enter.....


Bertue

On Mar 8, 6:21*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
William Hung wrote :





On Mar 7, 10:07*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote I agree with you to a
certain point. *I think that there arepeople out
there who are better off having 'one made for them' than to have them
make it themselves. *I know people will say, 'so let them get a
certified one!' *Well... just well...

They still have the freedom to go out and buy an experimental that
was constructed by someone else, under the rights allowed the person
that buil
t
it, as educational/recreational.

Until the regulations are change to allow people to build airplanes
for hire, and not have to be certified, that is the only way to go,
except the

limitations of LSA.

You don't like a reg, get it changed. *You don't have the right to
screw
*it
up for me, when I decide to build-legally, under the current amateur
built

provisions.
--
Jim in NC

It's not that I don't like the reg or wanting them changed, I just
want to be able to get help on my project if I get to a point where I
think, 'Hey maybe I'm not so confident about doing this part myself'.
I am still thinking about building my own plane, but that time hasn't
yet arrived.

That's no problem. That's sinificantly different from writing a check
and having someone build one for you. The airplanes in that class
usually are available with center sections built and so on, so there;s
no excuse to take it further.



I can see stol's point of view that there are people out there with
more money than brains. *People who pay pros to do their work an
claiming credit for it. *Those people are slimeballs, I agree.

And the more salient point is there are slimeballs out there who will
sell you an airplane that is a deathtrap..

The law is becoming less forgiven of slimeballs.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4438090a10.html

Wil



Time for Juan Jiminez to enter.....

Bertue- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

William Hung wrote in
:

On Mar 8, 6:21*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
William Hung wrote
innews:474be9f8-1906-4bb9-84ec-5d76
:





On Mar 7, 10:07*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote I agree with you to a
certain point. *I think that there arepeople out
there who are better off having 'one made for them' than to have
them make it themselves. *I know people will say, 'so let them get
a certified one!' *Well... just well...

They still have the freedom to go out and buy an experimental that
was constructed by someone else, under the rights allowed the
person that buil
t
it, as educational/recreational.

Until the regulations are change to allow people to build
airplanes for hire, and not have to be certified, that is the only
way to go, except the

limitations of LSA.

You don't like a reg, get it changed. *You don't have the right to
screw
*it
up for me, when I decide to build-legally, under the current
amateur built

provisions.
--
Jim in NC

It's not that I don't like the reg or wanting them changed, I just
want to be able to get help on my project if I get to a point where
I think, 'Hey maybe I'm not so confident about doing this part
myself'. I am still thinking about building my own plane, but that
time hasn't yet arrived.

That's no problem. That's sinificantly different from writing a check
and having someone build one for you. The airplanes in that class
usually are available with center sections built and so on, so
there;s no excuse to take it further.



I can see stol's point of view that there are people out there with
more money than brains. *People who pay pros to do their work an
claiming credit for it. *Those people are slimeballs, I agree.

And the more salient point is there are slimeballs out there who will
sell you an airplane that is a deathtrap..

The law is becoming less forgiven of slimeballs.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4438090a10.html


Good!

Bertie

On Mar 15, 3:14*pm, William Hung wrote:
On Mar 8, 6:21*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:





William Hung wrote :

On Mar 7, 10:07*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote I agree with you to a
certain point. *I think that there arepeople out
there who are better off having 'one made for them' than to have them
make it themselves. *I know people will say, 'so let them get a
certified one!' *Well... just well...

They still have the freedom to go out and buy an experimental that
was constructed by someone else, under the rights allowed the person
that buil
t
it, as educational/recreational.

Until the regulations are change to allow people to build airplanes
for hire, and not have to be certified, that is the only way to go,
except the

limitations of LSA.

You don't like a reg, get it changed. *You don't have the right to
screw
*it
up for me, when I decide to build-legally, under the current amateur
built

provisions.
--
Jim in NC

It's not that I don't like the reg or wanting them changed, I just
want to be able to get help on my project if I get to a point where I
think, 'Hey maybe I'm not so confident about doing this part myself'.
I am still thinking about building my own plane, but that time hasn't
yet arrived.

That's no problem. That's sinificantly different from writing a check
and having someone build one for you. The airplanes in that class
usually are available with center sections built and so on, so there;s
no excuse to take it further.

I can see stol's point of view that there are people out there with
more money than brains. *People who pay pros to do their work an
claiming credit for it. *Those people are slimeballs, I agree.

And the more salient point is there are slimeballs out there who will
sell you an airplane that is a deathtrap..

The law is becoming less forgiven of slimeballs.http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4438090a10.html

Wil





Time for Juan Jiminez to enter.....

Bertue- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The law is becoming less forgiv(ING) of slimeballs.http://
www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4438090a10.html

Wil