Way off topic, but it has do to with the French

Travelling on the metro in Spain is probably two orders of magnitude
than taking your son flying in a light plane. I find it odd that you're
fretting about this.

Oh, hell -- I wouldn't be letting him go to Spain if I was really worried.
I'm sure he'll be fine, as long as he can remember how to ask where the
bathroom is...

;-)

But I *do* find it aggravating and disconcerting that he's had to attend not
one, but THREE separate 2-hour classes on "how to behave in Spain" -- and
those instructions include basically hiding the fact that the kids are
American.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:BLnAj.13119$TT4.1674@attbi_s22:

Travelling on the metro in Spain is probably two orders of magnitude
than taking your son flying in a light plane. I find it odd that
you're fretting about this.

Oh, hell -- I wouldn't be letting him go to Spain if I was really
worried. I'm sure he'll be fine, as long as he can remember how to ask
where the bathroom is...


Well, that should be a piece of cake, but he'll probably tel them to clean
it by mistake out of force of habit.


Bertie

Jay Honeck schrieb:
Travelling on the metro in Spain is probably two orders of magnitude
than taking your son flying in a light plane. I find it odd that you're
fretting about this.

Oh, hell -- I wouldn't be letting him go to Spain if I was really worried.
I'm sure he'll be fine, as long as he can remember how to ask where the
bathroom is...

there are some basic differences as Europeans (not all, I'm
generalising) tend to be not so we-wee about sex etc, so we don't ask
for a bathroom (the bathroom is for taking a shower or brushing your
teeth etc.) but for the toilet (or other words to that effect). So there
might come the situation for your son where he is confronted with things
in public he might not see in the US like an openly displayed female
nude breast in advertising, nudity on TV before 8pm, breastfeeding in a
bus, etc. - I have no idea how you handle these things these days or
what changed in the last 5 years.
Not that we are all little perverts, but Europeans _tend_ to be more
open in these matters (generalising, again). Of course it might be the
case that he'll live in a rather conservative family and he might be
confronted with rather weired or old-fashioned views.

;-)

But I *do* find it aggravating and disconcerting that he's had to attend not
one, but THREE separate 2-hour classes on "how to behave in Spain" -- and
those instructions include basically hiding the fact that the kids are
American.

hm, who gave the instructions? People from Spain?

#m

there are some basic differences as Europeans (not all, I'm generalising)
tend to be not so we-wee about sex etc, so we don't ask for a bathroom
(the bathroom is for taking a shower or brushing your teeth etc.) but for
the toilet (or other words to that effect). So there might come the
situation for your son where he is confronted with things in public he
might not see in the US like an openly displayed female nude breast in
advertising, nudity on TV before 8pm, breastfeeding in a bus, etc.

Thanks for the tips. I know Joe is hoping to see all those liberal European
women gallivanting around Spain with their breasts exposed -- but I told him
not to get his hopes up.

Conversely, at the orientation meeting we attended the girls were told in NO
uncertain terms not to "dress like you do here" because Spanish boys have an
"interesting" idea of what American girls are like. In other words, they
think they're all "loose" because of what they've seen in Hollywood
movies...

But I *do* find it aggravating and disconcerting that he's had to attend
not one, but THREE separate 2-hour classes on "how to behave in Spain" --
and those instructions include basically hiding the fact that the kids
are American.

hm, who gave the instructions? People from Spain?

Nope, the chaperones -- who between the three of them have been to Spain
over 30 times in the last 15 years.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck schrieb:
there are some basic differences as Europeans (not all, I'm generalising)
tend to be not so we-wee about sex etc, so we don't ask for a bathroom
(the bathroom is for taking a shower or brushing your teeth etc.) but for
the toilet (or other words to that effect). So there might come the
situation for your son where he is confronted with things in public he
might not see in the US like an openly displayed female nude breast in
advertising, nudity on TV before 8pm, breastfeeding in a bus, etc.

Thanks for the tips. I know Joe is hoping to see all those liberal European
women gallivanting around Spain with their breasts exposed -- but I told him
not to get his hopes up.

well, it all ends up in stereotypes (as you wrote below about spanish
men). Spain (hm, it depends heavily on the area where he is in Spain; it
is a rather small country in your terms, but it has many different
cultural areas, besides the differences living in a city or on the
country or close to the beach with heavy tourism) as a southern country
is for sure more relaxed than northern countries (compared to Florida
and states in the north) - it is (remember, I'm generalising!) a more
easy-living, taking it more relaxed, etc.
But there aren't Spanish girls walking around topless everywhere. You
might see that on the beaches (this is nothing really special beeing
topless at the beach). But there are also strict rules like for walking
into churches (don't do it with shorts etc.) etc..

Conversely, at the orientation meeting we attended the girls were told in NO
uncertain terms not to "dress like you do here" because Spanish boys have an
"interesting" idea of what American girls are like. In other words, they
think they're all "loose" because of what they've seen in Hollywood
movies...

as above, everybody loves to feed his stereotypes. What most see here is
what they 'learn' from the TV-soaps, and then many take it for ganted
that Americans are the same like the folks in TV-soaps. :-)
But the spanish climate for sure opens your mind and it is easier for
some close encounters (oh well, I remember some beach nights on a
Spanish beach ... hmmmm ... yummie ... those where the days ...).

One of the - IMHO - biggest differences between USA and Europe are the
topics of discussions (again, generalising, bear that in mind!):
in the USA it is OK to talk about:
- job, salaries, cost of your house, ...
and not so OK:
- family, health, religion, sex, ...
in Europe one does not want to talk about salaries, but it is easier to
talk about more private things. Also sex is seen more open minded. Don't
talk about politics if you don't really have a good knowing about
details and if you are good in real discussions, you easily may find
people who are fit in US politics. Talkink about politics is not a no-no
itself.
(So) it is harder to make friendship in Europe, but once you made
friendship it is a real friendship where you can talk about everything.

It might sound harsh, but the _stereotypes_ are this way: Tell your son
that he should not walk around as "hey, I'm American, you're nothing!"
but more as "Hey, I know you might have a bad picture about us
Americans, but I'm here to see and try to understand your point of
view". Hope you get the idea (he still can think whatever he wants, but
presenting him the other way makes these 2 weeks easier for him). And he
should try to speak Spanish, at least for a greeting and a good bye. He
might be offered a cheek for a welcome-kiss and/or a big hug. This might
be disturbing for him, especially after 20 hours or so en-route with
7(?) hours time difference.

#m

It might sound harsh, but the _stereotypes_ are this way: Tell your son
that he should not walk around as "hey, I'm American, you're nothing!" but
more as "Hey, I know you might have a bad picture about us Americans, but
I'm here to see and try to understand your point of view". Hope you get
the idea (he still can think whatever he wants, but presenting him the
other way makes these 2 weeks easier for him). And he should try to speak
Spanish, at least for a greeting and a good bye.

I guess I didn't make it clear that this was a Spanish immersion trip. The
kids are not allowed to speak English for two weeks. Not even amongst
themselves -- although I suspect that rule is pretty tough to enforce.

So Joe -- horrible accent and all -- will be seeking "el bano" in Spanish
for two weeks, for better or worse. I suspect he'll do well -- he's had six
years of Spanish.

(Actually, his biggest worry is that he's not well-versed in European
Spanish, having been more exposed to Mexican Spanish. Apparently the
vocabulary and pronunciations have grown apart fairly significantly.)

He might be offered a cheek for a welcome-kiss and/or a big hug. This might
be disturbing for him, especially after 20 hours or so en-route with 7(?)
hours time difference.

Nah, kissing won't bother him. Unless it's a big, hairy guy trying to do
the kissing. Being a sleep deprived wrestler and power-lifter, I'd hate to
see the outcome of that...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article 1hRAj.68140$yE1.30721@attbi_s21,
Jay Honeck wrote:

(Actually, his biggest worry is that he's not well-versed in European
Spanish, having been more exposed to Mexican Spanish. Apparently the
vocabulary and pronunciations have grown apart fairly significantly.)


Tell him not to worry. Its a much smaller difference than US and Australian
english.

Just tell him to learn the three key phrases:

-Con permiso (excuse me)
-Gracias (thanks)
-Por favor hable mas despacio (please talk slower)

That should do it

Ah... and a small tidbit... US people are considered rude in most of europe,
mostly because they don't try to speak locally and just barf in loud and slow english.
If Joe tries first to speak spanish (or german, or french, or... etc) even if he fails
misserably, that will be seen as an ice breaker and he'll be able to continue
in english if needed. Most europeans speak decent english in turist cities, and
a lot even in more remote places.

(I sound US to germans, thats how I know...
--
Eduardo K. | Hofstadter's Law:
http://www.carfun.cl | It always takes longer than you expect,
http://e.nn.cl | even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

If Joe tries first to speak spanish (or german, or french, or... etc) even
if he fails
misserably, that will be seen as an ice breaker and he'll be able to
continue
in english if needed. Most europeans speak decent english in turist
cities, and
a lot even in more remote places.

Yep, it's going to be Spanish or....sign language, I guess. No English
allowed.

I'd pay good money to have a hidden camera on him in Madrid!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:BLnAj.13119$TT4.1674@attbi_s22:

Travelling on the metro in Spain is probably two orders of magnitude
than taking your son flying in a light plane. I find it odd that
you're fretting about this.

Oh, hell -- I wouldn't be letting him go to Spain if I was really
worried. I'm sure he'll be fine, as long as he can remember how to ask
where the bathroom is...

;-)

But I *do* find it aggravating and disconcerting that he's had to
attend not one, but THREE separate 2-hour classes on "how to behave in
Spain" -- and those instructions include basically hiding the fact
that the kids are American

IOW he's been told not to act like a loudmouthed asshole like his
father..



Bertie