Wow

"Blueskies" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
news:8c8e8d28-970b-4b97-afc5-986642eb93e0
@n36g2000hse.googlegroups.com.
..
On 5 Mar, 22:57, "Blueskies" wrote:
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in
.com...

Great Lakes or a Jungmann, to be honest.

Bertie

Jungmeister for sure :-))

Yeah, I know someone who had one before I met him. ******* sold it
so I never got to fly it!
just one of the prettiest airplanes ever.

Bertie

What about a Stampe?


Nice, kinda weird ailerons, though. The top ones are real loose on
most and I worried about flutter, but it doesn't seem to be a
problem. Nearly bought one cheap years ago. Lucky I didn't as they
have some serious issues with the fuselage getting oil soaked. You
can easily spend as much on them as you bought them for getting it
sorted. Very like the Great lakes, though. Very pleasant to fly and
they have funky cantankerous engines too! (that's a plus in my book)


Bertie

Yea..I like the lines and many seem to like the handling. I saw one
somewhere with an opposed 4 in it and thought it was blasphemy...



Yeah, I've seen a couple on barnstormers like that. You'd wonder why
they don't at least re-engine with a LOM. I looked at a couple with the
original engines. They made them with to different engines, a Renault
and a Gypsy. THey each had peculiar carberated inverted systems. This is
from memory, so for what it;s worth, the british Gypsy had a lever in
the cockpit that operated a shutoff/bypass to the float chamber,
effecting a direct feed from the header tank to the carb jets. This is
supposed to have worked quite well and was relatively idiot proof but
made the throttle a thing to be handled very carefully if a rich cut was
to be avoided. The Renault had a twin carb setup, one upright and one
inverted. I believe the Buckers had a similar setup. The Renault was
idiot proof and just needed to be set up properly on the ground.
There are still lots of them flitting around Europe and they command big
bucks! I think most have had the fuselage problems dealt with at this
point.

Bertie

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:18:39 -0600, Big John
wrote:

--------------clip---------------

So john, tell us about some of your sorties in Nam. I would also like
to hear some of the R&R stories as well.

Wil


************************************************* *****************

Will

Nam was very much like other conflict/wars.

Lost some close friends and acquaintances.
Killed enemy.
Got shot at.

I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

I lost two of my pilotsout of about 35 during my tour.

First was buzzing returning from mission and ran into a tree top
killing him and the ARVN observer.

Other was in mountainous terrain and a high wind that day. Just never
came back and never found. Best guess was that he got trapped in a
canyon and with wind and mountain gusts couldn't get turned around????

My order of best close air support fighters 'in country'.

Spooky's in a class by them selves.

My cousin played bait/target in the little Bell 47s.
He also flew Hueys (with guns on skids). Took in a bunch of troops,
came under fire. Used Huey to block fire and took out enemy. Huey went
down and burned with all on board. He didn't get out. Had Silver Star
waiting from previous mission that he never knew he earned.

It was written up on popasmoke. There used to be quite a story there,
but I see they just have the essentials now..
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 06 Mar 2008 20:37:40 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

Big John wrote
I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

John, ever run into a FAC pilot named Richard J. Smith? Later became
KC-135 Wing Commander at Fairchild. He probably retired in the mid 70's
and moved to Miami where I met him.

Bob Moore


********************

Bob

Name doesn't srike a bell. Sorry.

Big John

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:07:51 -0400, John Smith wrote:

I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

Sorry I am coming to this discussion late...
Big John, did you mention which aircraft you flew as a FAC?
I have read a couple of books on the O-1's (Army, Air Force, RAVENs),
OV-10's (Marines), and F-100 "Fast-FACs")
************************************************** ***********

John

0-1 & 0-2A

Big John

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 01:32:37 -0500, Roger
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:18:39 -0600, Big John
wrote:

--------------clip---------------

So john, tell us about some of your sorties in Nam. I would also like
to hear some of the R&R stories as well.

Wil


************************************************ ******************

Will

Nam was very much like other conflict/wars.

Lost some close friends and acquaintances.
Killed enemy.
Got shot at.

I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

I lost two of my pilotsout of about 35 during my tour.

First was buzzing returning from mission and ran into a tree top
killing him and the ARVN observer.

Other was in mountainous terrain and a high wind that day. Just never
came back and never found. Best guess was that he got trapped in a
canyon and with wind and mountain gusts couldn't get turned around????

My order of best close air support fighters 'in country'.

Spooky's in a class by them selves.

My cousin played bait/target in the little Bell 47s.
He also flew Hueys (with guns on skids). Took in a bunch of troops,
came under fire. Used Huey to block fire and took out enemy. Huey went
down and burned with all on board. He didn't get out. Had Silver Star
waiting from previous mission that he never knew he earned.

It was written up on popasmoke. There used to be quite a story there,
but I see they just have the essentials now..
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

************************************************** ***********************
Roger

Sorry to hear about your cousin.

There were a lot of Choppers getting shot up and down lifting troops
into hot LZ's. They came to the Air Force in my Corps and asked us to
prep the LZ just before arrival of the troops in the choppers.

After the troops landed and made it into the tree line, we (Air Force)
would turn the CAS over to the Gun Ships. Our FAC would stay in area
and contact with ground commander for a while to see what developed
and if things got too hot for the Gun Ships we brought some fast
movers back to provide heavy support.

After this change in tactics it became rare for troops to go into a
hot LZ.

Big John

On Mar 6, 3:53*pm, Big John wrote:
..............clip................

Is the 0-2 the Skymaster? *Saw a great movie some years back that has
a nice 0-2 flying scenes, think it might have been 'Flight of the
Intruder'.

Wil

************************************************** *******************

Wil

Not flight of Intruder. That was a Navy A-6 movie. Name was "Bat 21".

Ah yes that's what is was, "Bat 21" I loved how the 02 flew. Saw
some going for 50ish and some for over a 100, Riley Rocket I think
they are called.


Pilot got shot down and was given vectors based on a golf course he
had played to a pick up point by SF troops.

Yes 0-2A was FAC Skymaster.

Didn't like it as a FAC bird.

Start a turn around a target and after 180 degrees would get stall
warning and have to go to METO power.

Took lots of technique to put Willie *Pete (marking rockets) on small
target vs 0-1.


The 01 being the L-19 Cessna?

Had hydraulic pump on only one engine and if you lost that engine on
take off, before you got gear up, bird was marginal single engine and
dirty configuration.

One of reasons Air Force bought bird was to use on
trail (replacing 0-1's). Only problem was that if on trail and lost a
engine the single engine altitude was not high enough to fly over the
mountains to get home to south VN. Maybe make it VFR but not night or
IFR en route.

My last GA flight was in a 337 my buddy wanted me to fly for him. Hit
a big buzzard and almost tore a wing off (

Need to do some things around house.


Honey dos? Know the feeling.

Wil

Bye

Big John

On Mar 6, 3:18*pm, Big John wrote:
--------------clip---------------

So john, tell us about some of your sorties in Nam. *I would also like
to hear some of the R&R stories as well.

Wil

************************************************** ****************

Will

Nam was very much like other conflict/wars.

Lost some close friends and acquaintances.
Killed enemy.
Got shot at.

I was in the FAC business. Besides being Director of II DASC flew a
combat sortie on average of every other day when I had paper work
done.

I lost two of my pilotsout of about 35 during my tour.

First was buzzing returning from mission and ran into a tree top
killing him and the ARVN observer.

Other was in mountainous terrain and a high wind that day. Just never
came back and never found. Best guess was that he got trapped in a
canyon and with wind and mountain gusts couldn't get turned around????

My order of best close air support fighters 'in country'.

Spooky's in a class by them selves.

A-1 and AT-37 about equal and best for close air support. Both slow,
long mission duration so could hold over battlefield and wall to wall
ordnance.

F-100 good all around bird. Could normally hit target.

F-4 not a good CAS bird. Very hard to get them to hit marked target.

F-105. During bombing pause in north, sent me a flight of 105's to use
in troops in contact. With TIC you had to be very careful not to hit
your friendly's. When the 105's checked in they said all they could
give me was one pass. I marked target and they rolled in as a flight
from 20k pickled everything and with the burners running pulled out
and headed for home in Thailand. They threw bombs all over the area
and just lucky they were so poor a *shot or they would have killed
some friendly's. Their delivery was what they did in north VN but
worthless in south VN. I called Saigon and told them not to send any
more 105's to Two Corps and what had happened. They then just gave the
105's a stand down in Thailand.

During TET I launched after things broke (about 01:00) and flew till
dawn to have a FAC airborne. They started shooting at me and I could
see the tracers so just turned my lights off and flew blacked out.

Had a flight of F-100's and we had just poked a hornets nest when my
engine quit ( Didn't wan't to go down where we had stirred them up
so did all the good things and finally got engine running again. told
the flight leader I had lost engine and he offered to escort me back
to home base. I told him to stay with me until I got back over Hwy 1
(which ran the full length of county north and south and had lots of
friendly traffic all day on it). When I got over Hwy told fighters
thanks and released them and both of us flew home. Bird check out ok
on ground so was kept on schedule. A couple of days latter it did the
same thing with one of my pilots and he also made it back. We took to
support Sq and they put a new engine in. Looking back, I think the
problem was probably the mixture. We ran pretty lean as SOP.

Got a call one day from Spooky CO and wanted a joint mission with a
FAC. There was a village near Pleiku that was giving them ground fire
on their night missions. Rendezvoused with the Gooney after dark and
they started dropping flares. I flew under the flares where I could be
seen from ground. As soon as I started getting fire, Spooky opened up
and zapped them. We did this several times until they had cleaned out
that nest.

Nothing like D-day but each day was something new for me.

On numerous occasions had Army troops come up to me and thank me for
saving their life. Told them our mission was to help the Grunts )

Just some more ramblings Will.

Was ALO to 7th ARVN at My Tho. Story was told that Martha Ray had
visited a few weeks before I arrived and she got in 0-1 and was taken
on a combat mission. Saigon turned their eyes on her activities in VN.
Troops at all levels loved her maybe more than Bob Hope as she went to
the small units that Bob didn't visit. He did good but she may have
done better. She also had nurses training and helped medically on many
occasions. Sorry to see her pass.

Provided back up support for some Seal operations.

Landed by a line of idling Huey's. One didn't have his collective full
flat pitch. As I went buy the down wash blew me over almost on my
back.

Army Hueys used to land at our little laterite (clay) strip to refuel
and re-arm. In heat of summer with full fuel and a full load of 2.75
Inch FFAR's they couldn't lift off and then accelerate to translation
so they would put on max power and max blade rotation (both probably
over red line?) and then add collective and bird would jump in air and
then fall back to ground. They kept some forward stick in and each
time they jumped they got a little more forward speed and eventually
they got into translation and started flying. As their speed built up
they then could start to climb. These takeoffs always scared me as
they fell back and hit so hard. I expected them to explode but all I
watched made it ok.

We may have some chopper pilots who can expand on this technique???

Went to Hong Kong and landing at the old airport was just like I had
read about. Buildings above final approach altitude off both wing tips
and wheels just above roof tops. Touch down and full brakes and
reverse and just stopped 100 feet from end of runway (and harbor)
normal landing.

Enough chit chat. All from a time long ago and a war far away.

Big John

Thanks John. Great reading, you should write some more and some day
put them all together into a book.

Wil