Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path?

"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:57:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Try Twin Oaks airport near San Antonio.
http://www.fboweb.com/fb40/airport/T94.html

It's not unsafe if you are careful.

That's what they told Aryton Senna.

I can't help feel that you are totally paranoid of flying, and do not have
a good grip of the risks and risk management of flying.

From what I have read, you are not yet a pilot, but have it in your head
that you are going to be one, and have figured out the route you are going
to take to get there.

I don't think you have enough knowledge to accurately understand what
constitutes undue risk, or what is a reasonable risk, or even how to
approach learning about flying, and how to get into it. Yet you pronounce
some things, such as this airport as overly risky to live in, or to fly
into.

It appears as though the hangars and houses are close to, or over 150 feet
from the edge of the runway, but you feel they are too close.

There are many, many airports that have structures or natural obstacles much
closer than this one. Yet, airplanes land and takeoff from these places for
many years with no incidents. Occasionally there are problems, but that is
why you buy insurance. You might even have to decide to give the airplane
to the insurance company someday, if a particularly crappy incident happens
to you - if you take up being a pilot. Planes and houses don't grow on
trees, but they are much easier to replace than people.

I suppose you could say you are at a higher risk if you live within two
miles of any airport. Is it a reasonable risk? I think so.

Are the houses in the airpark in an overly risky location? No, I don't
think so. Are they at a higher risk? Probably, but most would say they are
at a reasonable risk level.

Flying will put you at a higher risk than many other activities in your
life. The rewards outweigh the risks, to the people that stay in it. You
can choose to live your life safe and boring, or live your life rich and
full of reward, and not be afraid of the somewhat higher risks. I know what
I choose, as do most of the flying folks in this group.

Try to keep a more open mind. Try to not come across as knowing everything
on the subjects being discussed, and learn from the knowledgeable people
here. You will need to learn which posters to ignore, of course, too, but I
think you know that.

Just try not to jump to conclusions quite so quickly. I think you will get
more, and better responses, and that you will learn more, too.
--
Jim in NC

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:20:58 -0400, Morgans wrote:

There are many, many airports that have structures or natural obstacles much
closer than this one. Yet, airplanes land and takeoff from these places for
many years with no incidents. Occasionally there are problems, but that is
why you buy insurance.

Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path? is the Subject, note the ?

You might even have to decide to give the airplane
to the insurance company someday, if a particularly crappy incident happens
to you - if you take up being a pilot. Planes and houses don't grow on
trees, but they are much easier to replace than people.

I suppose you could say you are at a higher risk if you live within two
miles of any airport. Is it a reasonable risk? I think so.

Two miles and 20 meters is entirely 2 different discussions.

Are the houses in the airpark in an overly risky location? No, I don't
think so. Are they at a higher risk? Probably, but most would say they are
at a reasonable risk level.

So what you are telling me is that it is a reasonable risk to live next to
a landing strip/field in relation for what convenience?

Flying will put you at a higher risk than many other activities in your
life. The rewards outweigh the risks, to the people that stay in it. You
can choose to live your life safe and boring, or live your life rich and
full of reward, and not be afraid of the somewhat higher risks. I know what
I choose, as do most of the flying folks in this group.

If you believe that life is rewarding based upon the level of risk you
take, I feel very sorry for you.

This comes from a risk taker of the penultimate degree.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

If you are looking for perfect safety, you will do well to sit on a
fence and watch the birds; but if you really wish to learn, you must
mount a machine and become acquainted with its tricks by actual trial.

— Wilbur Wright, from an address to the Western Society of Engineers in
Chicago, 18 September 1901.




In flying I have learned that carelessness and overconfidence are
usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks.

— Wilbur Wright in a letter to his father, September 1900.




I learned that danger is relative, and the inexperience can be a
magnifying glass.

— Charles A. Lindbergh




Or? Is it this one that grabs you?

Beware, dear son of my heart, lest in thy new-found power thou seekest
even the gates of Olympus . . . . These wings may bring thy freedom but
may also come thy death.

— Daedalus to Icarus, after teaching his son to use his new wings of wax
and feathers.

lol

Back to the Subject:

Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path?



On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:42:43 -0600, cavelamb himself wrote:

If you are looking for perfect safety, you will do well to sit on a
fence and watch the birds; but if you really wish to learn, you must
mount a machine and become acquainted with its tricks by actual trial.

¡X Wilbur Wright, from an address to the Western Society of Engineers in
Chicago, 18 September 1901.

In flying I have learned that carelessness and overconfidence are
usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks.

¡X Wilbur Wright in a letter to his father, September 1900.

I learned that danger is relative, and the inexperience can be a
magnifying glass.

¡X Charles A. Lindbergh

Or? Is it this one that grabs you?

Beware, dear son of my heart, lest in thy new-found power thou seekest
even the gates of Olympus . . . . These wings may bring thy freedom but
may also come thy death.

¡X Daedalus to Icarus, after teaching his son to use his new wings of wax
and feathers.


--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

Recently, WJRFlyBoy posted:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:20:58 -0400, Morgans wrote:

There are many, many airports that have structures or natural
obstacles much closer than this one. Yet, airplanes land and
takeoff from these places for many years with no incidents.
Occasionally there are problems, but that is why you buy insurance.

Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path? is the Subject, note the ?

You might even have to decide to give the airplane
to the insurance company someday, if a particularly crappy incident
happens to you - if you take up being a pilot. Planes and houses
don't grow on trees, but they are much easier to replace than people.

I suppose you could say you are at a higher risk if you live within
two miles of any airport. Is it a reasonable risk? I think so.

Two miles and 20 meters is entirely 2 different discussions.

(rest snipped for brevity)

Having read many of your posts, I have to agree with Morgans' suggestion
that you argue less and listen more. Once you start your flight training
you will find that many of your current concerns in areas such as this are
unwarranted. In the meantime, your arguments with those who actually fly
and understand the relevant issues neither serve your ultimate goal nor
help those who, like you, participate in this group to learn because
authoritatively stated misinformation is counterproductive.

A brief example; you will learn that you can't be off the runway by 20
meters at most airports without things getting ugly. You will also learn
that there will be times when you will be unable to take off or land at a
chosen airport, and how to judge those times reasonably well.

Be patient, listen, and learn!

Best,

Neil

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:09:55 -0600, Neil Gould wrote:

Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path? is the Subject, note the ?

You might even have to decide to give the airplane
to the insurance company someday, if a particularly crappy incident
happens to you - if you take up being a pilot. Planes and houses
don't grow on trees, but they are much easier to replace than people.

I suppose you could say you are at a higher risk if you live within
two miles of any airport. Is it a reasonable risk? I think so.

Two miles and 20 meters is entirely 2 different discussions.

(rest snipped for brevity)

Having read many of your posts, I have to agree with Morgans' suggestion
that you argue less and listen more. Once you start your flight training
you will find that many of your current concerns in areas such as this are
unwarranted. In the meantime, your arguments with those who actually fly
and understand the relevant issues neither serve your ultimate goal nor
help those who, like you, participate in this group to learn because
authoritatively stated misinformation is counterproductive.

A brief example; you will learn that you can't be off the runway by 20
meters at most airports without things getting ugly. You will also learn
that there will be times when you will be unable to take off or land at a
chosen airport, and how to judge those times reasonably well.

Be patient, listen, and learn!

Best,

Neil

I appreciate the thought Neil but it's not like I haven't had a few
hundred hours in single/twin in the left seat.

First, most everyone assumed that I have some kind of irrational problem
with airparks. The irrationality I find is that few, one or two, wanted
to discuss the very real possibilities of serious person and property
damage. Let's take the recent Velocity-RV incident, put that in an
airpark and you have major, potential carnage.

Everyone, almost, assumed that I was looking to find serious and
conclusive faults to the airpark lifestyle. Here's a heads up. If anyone
had simply asked, instead of assuming, what my interest level is, and
why, they would have gotten the straight answer.

I develop real estate with a slant to the niche, luxury market place
(beach, bay, waterfront at the present.) In my area of SW FL, there is
only one airpark and, imo, it's not up to what folks want.

Pilots complain about the public's misconceptions about airparks and air
safety. Chicken and egg, I have sat in way too many pilot-public debates
where both sides are at odds and are carrying attitudes to those
discussions. This thread is a very good example.

One of the powers of being labeled as a under-educated, Mr, KnowItAll is
that people get all hot and bothered for no good reason /but/ they spill
their guts and let the verbiage fly. I take copious notes as my Daddy
said, "You can learn from anyone something, shake the tree to make the
hornets fly if you have too


--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

On Mar 17, 6:20*am, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:09:55 -0600, Neil Gould wrote:
Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path? is the Subject, note the ?

*You might even have to decide to give the airplane
to the insurance company someday, if a particularly crappy incident
happens to you - if you take up being a pilot. *Planes and houses
don't grow on trees, but they are much easier to replace than people.

I suppose you could say you are at a higher risk if you live within
two miles of any airport. *Is it a reasonable risk? *I think so.

Two miles and 20 meters is entirely 2 different discussions.

(rest snipped for brevity)

Having read many of your posts, I have to agree with Morgans' suggestion
that you argue less and listen more. Once you start your flight training
you will find that many of your current concerns in areas such as this are
unwarranted. In the meantime, your arguments with those who actually fly
and understand the relevant issues neither serve your ultimate goal nor
help those who, like you, participate in this group to learn because
authoritatively stated misinformation is counterproductive.

A brief example; you will learn that you can't be off the runway by 20
meters at most airports without things getting ugly. You will also learn
that there will be times when you will be unable to take off or land at a
chosen airport, and how to judge those times reasonably well.

Be patient, listen, and learn!

Best,

Neil

I appreciate the thought Neil but it's not like I haven't had a few
hundred hours in single/twin in the left seat.

First, most everyone assumed that I have some kind of irrational problem
with airparks. The irrationality I find is that few, one or two, wanted
to discuss the very real possibilities of serious person and property
damage. Let's take the recent Velocity-RV incident, put that in an
airpark and you have major, potential carnage.

Everyone, almost, assumed that I was looking to find serious and
conclusive faults to the airpark lifestyle. Here's a heads up. If anyone
had simply asked, instead of assuming, what my interest level is, and
why, they would have gotten the straight answer.

I develop real estate with a slant to the niche, luxury market place
(beach, bay, waterfront at the present.) In my area of SW FL, there is
only one airpark and, imo, it's not up to what folks want.

Pilots complain about the public's misconceptions about airparks and air
safety. Chicken and egg, I have sat in way too many pilot-public debates
where both sides are at odds and are carrying attitudes to those
discussions. This thread is a very good example.

One of the powers of being labeled as a under-educated, Mr, KnowItAll is
that people get all hot and bothered for no good reason /but/ they spill
their guts and let the verbiage fly. I take copious notes as my Daddy
said, "You can learn from anyone something, shake the tree to make the
hornets fly if you have too

--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So according to you, everybody over reacted to your oh so simple
request for information. I would contend that you in fact brought it
on yourself from the very first post forward and the one that finally
got me involved was totally off the charts.

. Whenever you have 600 airplanes residing in a place, you are going
to
. have SOME incidents --ranging from groundloops to full-house
"screwing
. the pooch."

YOUR RESPONSE BELOW:

.Let's start this over Captiva.
.
.Planes...landing..people...mistakes..houses...too close...imminent
death.
.
.Yes?
.
.Make sense?
.????

In the future, you might get a much more acceptable response by
stating you purpose and engaging in a reasoned discussion of the
issues. You instead decided on an approach that you fully well knew
would result in exactly the response you got and then whine about
it.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT), BobR wrote:

I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So according to you, everybody

I didn't say everybody. You and I have this issue every time we post.
You go off half-cocked, posting a bunch of self-determining hooey as
fact.

over reacted to your oh so simple
request for information.

Simple? I don;t see anything simple about this thread. Or the airpark
business. Or determined the truth in the statistics of which, have you
done your homework on that? I have and posted the same. More Bob Hooey.

I would contend that you in fact brought it
on yourself from the very first post forward and the one that finally
got me involved was totally off the charts.

. Whenever you have 600 airplanes residing in a place, you are going
to
. have SOME incidents --ranging from groundloops to full-house
"screwing
. the pooch."

YOUR RESPONSE BELOW:

.Let's start this over Captiva.
.
.Planes...landing..people...mistakes..houses...too close...imminent
death.
.
.Yes?

See the question mark? =See, there it is again, another question mark.
Wanna see another? =There it is. Learning anything? =There's another
one.

Question marks are not for statement, they are, for, er, lemme see.
Questions.

Let me repeat my previous answer to you in this thread, this time take
notes.

Ready? =There's another one.

"Is the Subject Of This Thread too hard for you?

Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path? = =

"You attack like a rabid Muppet on crack. It's clear as a
bright summer day why you get the treatment you get almost every time
you post. You foist the most ludicrous, self contradictory arguments
I've ever seen anyone even attempt in my entire life, then try and
defend them. You're absolutely insane. Obsessed.

Feel free to stay in character and scream about what a "troll" I am
some more for pointing out your glaringly obvious dishonesty."

.
.Make sense?
.????

In the future, you might get a much more acceptable response by
stating you purpose and engaging in a reasoned discussion of the
issues. You instead decided on an approach that you fully well knew
would result in exactly the response you got and then whine about
it.

Only whining I hear is yours.

Rinse, dry, repeat the above.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

On Mar 17, 5:18 pm, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
WJRFlyBoy [endless]
blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah

Dude... you should spend less time typing, and more time flying.

Or reading about flying.

Or watching airplanes.



Dan Mc

On Mar 17, 4:18*pm, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT), BobR wrote:
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So according to you, everybody

I didn't say everybody. You and I have this issue every time we post.
You go off half-cocked, posting a bunch of self-determining hooey as
fact.

over reacted to your oh so simple
request for information.

Simple? I don;t see anything simple about this thread. Or the airpark
business. Or determined the truth in the statistics of which, have you
done your homework on that? I have and posted the same. More Bob Hooey.





I would contend that you in fact brought it
on yourself from the very first post forward and the one that finally
got me involved was totally off the charts.

. Whenever you have 600 airplanes residing in a place, you are going
to
. have SOME incidents --ranging from groundloops to full-house
"screwing
. the pooch."

YOUR RESPONSE BELOW:

.Let's start this over Captiva.
.
.Planes...landing..people...mistakes..houses...too close...imminent
death.
.
.Yes?

See the question mark? =See, there it is again, *another question mark.
Wanna see another? =There it is. Learning anything? =There's another
one.

Question marks are not for statement, they are, for, er, lemme see.
Questions.

Let me repeat my previous answer *to you in this thread, this time take
notes.

Ready? =There's another one.

"Is the Subject Of This Thread too hard for you?

Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path? = =

"You attack like a rabid Muppet on crack. It's clear as a
bright summer day why you get the treatment you get almost every time
you post. You foist the most ludicrous, self contradictory arguments
I've ever seen anyone even attempt in my entire life, then try and
defend them. You're absolutely insane. Obsessed.

Feel free to stay in character and scream about what a "troll" I am
some more for pointing out your glaringly obvious dishonesty."

.
.Make sense?
.????

In the future, you might get a much more acceptable response by
stating you purpose and engaging in a reasoned discussion of the
issues. *You instead decided on an approach that you fully well knew
would result in exactly the response you got and then whine about
it.

Only whining I hear is yours.

Rinse, dry, repeat the above.
--
- Show quoted text -

Overall, you have gotten the responses you asked for and deserved. If
you had wanted to discuss airparks, airpark living, or even the
liability issues of airparks, you went about it in a very strange and
confrontational manner from the outset.

So bitch on, you clearly have nothing to add so PLOINK!