Turn to Final - Keeping Ball Centered

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more.

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?

In VFR with no gyros, you line up two diagonal instrument mounting screws
with the horizon. (old glider trick)

Vaughn

On Mar 13, 1:16*pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message

...

My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more.

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?

* *In VFR with no gyros, you line up two diagonal instrument mounting screws
with the horizon. *(old glider trick)



As I read it, this is not VFR it's an IF test...

Cheers

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 1:16 pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
As I read it, this is not VFR it's an IF test...

I read it that way also, which is why I suitably qualified my answer


Cheers back atcha
Vaughn

On Mar 13, 1:53*pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 1:16 pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:

As I read it, this is not VFR it's an IF test...

* *I read it that way also, which is why I suitably qualified my answer

Cheers back atcha
Vaughn

So, how do you do it in an IF test?

Cheers back again

I didn't know at the time about turning more than standard rate on the
coordinator, it was something I hadn't done when he requested it. The peg
is around 45 degrees or so. I was also watching my airspeed for decay while
maintaining level flight. And I know you aren't supposed to use the feeling
in your butt for instrument flight, but it I couldn't help it being a newbie
to instrument flight. I of course rely on the instruments when they don't
agree with my body.

The concept was probably good, because failures of turn and banks are a lot
more rare than gyros, and if I was confused I would give the coordinator
more weight in decision making than the gyros until I sorted it out because
of that fact.

This would have been about 8 years ago. Same instructor said he doesn't
recommend any private pilot candidate without doing spins, so 5th lesson did
left and right multi-turn spins which scared the crap out of me until I
figured out they were fun on about the 2nd one. I doubt there are that many
of the old school instructors left. I was also never allowed to use power
pre-solo after abeam the numbers to turn base.

I personally feel it prolonged how long it took me to solo, but once you
figure it out it is good.

Wingflaps
So, how do you do it in an IF test?
So, how do you do it in an IF test?

Cheers back again

On Mar 14, 4:36*am, "Ron A." wrote:
I didn't know at the time about turning more than standard rate on the
coordinator, it was something I hadn't done when he requested it. *The peg
is around 45 degrees or so. *I was also watching my airspeed for decay while
maintaining level flight. *And I know you aren't supposed to use the feeling
in your butt for instrument flight, but it I couldn't help it being a newbie
to instrument flight. *I of course rely on the instruments when they don't
agree with my body.


I think something is not quite right here. I may have this wrong, but
the TC doesn't indicate angle of bank at all. It's a rate instrument
and indicates rate of roll and rate of turn (plus ball) -at least
that's what I learnt. In that case where the peg is does not inicate
angle of bank but rate of bank/turn

Cheers

On Mar 14, 8:33 am, WingFlaps wrote:

I think something is not quite right here. I may have this wrong, but
the TC doesn't indicate angle of bank at all. It's a rate instrument
and indicates rate of roll and rate of turn (plus ball) -at least
that's what I learnt. In that case where the peg is does not inicate
angle of bank but rate of bank/turn


Needle Rate of turn.

Ball Balanced turn

I didn't mean it directly indicates bank. But at a given airspeed
(maneuvering in my instance) and no yaw you can come up with a good
approximation of a steep turn with the airplane in the coordinator pegged.
I haven't done it without partial panel so I don't know what it equated to
but if a standard rate is around 17 degrees at my airspeed it should be
around double that. It was probably close to 40-45 degrees at that
airspeed. Close enough for the instructional purpose of partial panel 720's
and then rollout the opposite way.



"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
On Mar 14, 4:36 am, "Ron A." wrote:
I didn't know at the time about turning more than standard rate on the
coordinator, it was something I hadn't done when he requested it. The peg
is around 45 degrees or so. I was also watching my airspeed for decay
while
maintaining level flight. And I know you aren't supposed to use the
feeling
in your butt for instrument flight, but it I couldn't help it being a
newbie
to instrument flight. I of course rely on the instruments when they don't
agree with my body.


I think something is not quite right here. I may have this wrong, but
the TC doesn't indicate angle of bank at all. It's a rate instrument
and indicates rate of roll and rate of turn (plus ball) -at least
that's what I learnt. In that case where the peg is does not inicate
angle of bank but rate of bank/turn

Cheers

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more.

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?


A 45 degree turn in most planes is going to peg the needle in the turn
indicator.

And the last thing you want to be doing partial panel are manouvers
like that. Standard rate at the most.

It's certainly not in the PTS or any FAA-endorsed curriculum.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:49:35 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more.

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?

You don't.



A 45 degree turn in most planes is going to peg the needle in the turn
indicator.

And the last thing you want to be doing partial panel are manouvers
like that. Standard rate at the most.

Yup and half standard when you get any where near the airport. (Time
for a PARg)

It's certainly not in the PTS or any FAA-endorsed curriculum.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com