Stalls and Thoughts

On Mar 14, 2:40 pm, Deadstick wrote:
I haven't done any instructing recently, but when I did, I taught slow
flight, stall recognition and avoidance AND stall entry & recovery. I
don't think they have be be exclusive of one another.

Plus I think learning to recognize and avoid stalls is probably a
better risk-management strategy given that it can be easily learned
and mastered by pilots of all skill levels. In principle I agree that
ALL pilots should be fully competent at slow airspeeds and at
recovering from stalls, but I would also tend to say that there's a
lot more that we can teach pilots before we set them free to fly on
their own.

I am curious as to the meaning of the phrase "..dragging it in". As
in "...he turned on final, dragging it in".

I knew a pilot at A&M who died in a C182 while "dragging it in". I
assumed at the time that this was slow flight and without further
details could only assume that he inadvertently stalled the plane at
some point.

I also inferred that this phrase could also say "was behind the power
curve".

Any thoughts would be appreciated. (IIRC, he did not spin in).

Richard

wrote in news:7bcc745a-a5d6-4731-84a6-
:

On Mar 14, 2:40 pm, Deadstick wrote:
I haven't done any instructing recently, but when I did, I taught slow
flight, stall recognition and avoidance AND stall entry & recovery. I
don't think they have be be exclusive of one another.

Plus I think learning to recognize and avoid stalls is probably a
better risk-management strategy given that it can be easily learned
and mastered by pilots of all skill levels. In principle I agree that
ALL pilots should be fully competent at slow airspeeds and at
recovering from stalls, but I would also tend to say that there's a
lot more that we can teach pilots before we set them free to fly on
their own.

I am curious as to the meaning of the phrase "..dragging it in". As
in "...he turned on final, dragging it in".

I knew a pilot at A&M who died in a C182 while "dragging it in". I
assumed at the time that this was slow flight and without further
details could only assume that he inadvertently stalled the plane at
some point.

I also inferred that this phrase could also say "was behind the power
curve".

Any thoughts would be appreciated. (IIRC, he did not spin in).


That's generally how I understand that expression ot mean. Even for short
field stuff it's unnecessary to do that, IMO.


Bertie

wrote:
On Mar 14, 2:40 pm, Deadstick wrote:
I haven't done any instructing recently, but when I did, I taught slow
flight, stall recognition and avoidance AND stall entry & recovery. I
don't think they have be be exclusive of one another.

Plus I think learning to recognize and avoid stalls is probably a
better risk-management strategy given that it can be easily learned
and mastered by pilots of all skill levels. In principle I agree that
ALL pilots should be fully competent at slow airspeeds and at
recovering from stalls, but I would also tend to say that there's a
lot more that we can teach pilots before we set them free to fly on
their own.

I am curious as to the meaning of the phrase "..dragging it in". As
in "...he turned on final, dragging it in".

I knew a pilot at A&M who died in a C182 while "dragging it in". I
assumed at the time that this was slow flight and without further
details could only assume that he inadvertently stalled the plane at
some point.

I also inferred that this phrase could also say "was behind the power
curve".

Any thoughts would be appreciated. (IIRC, he did not spin in).

Richard
The analogy "dragging it in" refers to having the airplane configured
behind the power curve or if you wish, in the area of reverse command,
on final approach....a very dangerous situation.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 15, 4:33 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:


The analogy "dragging it in" refers to having the airplane configured
behind the power curve or if you wish, in the area of reverse command,
on final approach....a very dangerous situation.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dangerous, but certainly useful at times!

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 4:33 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:


The analogy "dragging it in" refers to having the airplane configured
behind the power curve or if you wish, in the area of reverse command,
on final approach....a very dangerous situation.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dangerous, but certainly useful at times!

Such as? (I can think of one instance, but I'd like to know if we're on the
same page)

"Dragging it in" does not necessarily mean "in in the area of reverse
command". It just means that you have added power instead of reducing drag
by retracting flaps or gear, etc. "The area of reverse command" is an
exteme example.

--
BobF.
"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 4:33 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:


The analogy "dragging it in" refers to having the airplane configured
behind the power curve or if you wish, in the area of reverse command,
on final approach....a very dangerous situation.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dangerous, but certainly useful at times!

Such as? (I can think of one instance, but I'd like to know if we're on
the same page)

Bob F. wrote:
"Dragging it in" does not necessarily mean "in in the area of reverse
command". It just means that you have added power instead of reducing
drag by retracting flaps or gear, etc. "The area of reverse command"
is an exteme example.

The coffin corner of the back side of the power curve is the extreme.
You can add power flaps or no flaps and still be well on the front side
of the power curve.
Generally speaking, if you are "dragging it in, you are most certainly
in the area of reverse command

--
Dudley Henriques

"Generally"?, "most certainly"?, I'd say "in one case". The other way
around is correct. That is "if you are in the area of reverse command, you
are dragging it in". Notwithstanding that the phrase includes the notion of
approaching and/or landing. The coffin corner is also not on the back side
of the power curve. It is at the asymptote and you can never get into the
back side. That's why it a corner. It is certainly not referred to as
"dragging it in" there. Been there with the best test pilots in the world
in a 747-400 while I was testing the 400. No one has ever referred to is as
that.

--
BobF.
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Bob F. wrote:
"Dragging it in" does not necessarily mean "in in the area of reverse
command". It just means that you have added power instead of reducing
drag by retracting flaps or gear, etc. "The area of reverse command" is
an exteme example.

The coffin corner of the back side of the power curve is the extreme. You
can add power flaps or no flaps and still be well on the front side of the
power curve.
Generally speaking, if you are "dragging it in, you are most certainly in
the area of reverse command

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 15, 7:10 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bob F. wrote:
"Dragging it in" does not necessarily mean "in in the area of reverse
command". It just means that you have added power instead of reducing
drag by retracting flaps or gear, etc. "The area of reverse command"
is an exteme example.

The coffin corner of the back side of the power curve is the extreme.
You can add power flaps or no flaps and still be well on the front side
of the power curve.
Generally speaking, if you are "dragging it in, you are most certainly
in the area of reverse command

--
Dudley Henriques

Wouldn't a more exact definition be that the "region of reversed
command" is that condition where induced drag is at its greatest,
pitch only controls airspeed, and power only controls altitude?

One can "drag in" and airplane and not meet all the aforementioned
conditions.

The usefulness of this condition is apparent in short field landings.

Dan Mc

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 4:33 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

The analogy "dragging it in" refers to having the airplane configured
behind the power curve or if you wish, in the area of reverse command,
on final approach....a very dangerous situation.

--
Dudley Henriques
Dangerous, but certainly useful at times!

Such as? (I can think of one instance, but I'd like to know if we're on the
same page)


I hope he's not thinking of carrier approaches; popular misconception!

--
Dudley Henriques