Checklist

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:46:34 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Kloudy via AviationKB.com" u33403@uwe wrote in
news:8180da195218d@uwe:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:252806d9-1056-4209-b52b-
:



Why would you need a gear check for takeoff?

Bertie

Oh good lord, man.

To make sure they're down!


*geeez.*


I would have thought the difficulty in turning the engine over would
suffice. Though I bet it's been tried!

Some years back I watched a guy in a Mooney try a go-around after the
gear failed to jack it up high enough for the prop to quit leaving
chaw marks. He (or the guy in the right seat) realized the folly in
that and then gave up. Starting at the numbers there was a line of
chaw marks fairly far apart which suddenly got real close together.
Then there was a couple hundred feet of clean runway followed by more
wide spaced chaw marks and then skid marks. He slid over half a mile
before leaving the runway.

I walked the runway to pick up "spare parts" and shot photos along the
way. I should post those. I also have a nice shot of a Beech
Mousekateer...er Musketeer setting mostly on its nose with its tail
feathers sticking way up in the air after doing a very nice imitation
of a Porpoise while landing down wind and in front of a large crowd.

I was the one interviewed as a witness. I only answered what I was
asked. I pointed out the bent push rod for the starboard main which
would not put the gear down. I did not offer my opinion it got that
way from trying to jack up the airplane while it was sliding on the
gear doors. No one asked about the melted tire rubber on the inside
of the nose gear doors.:-))

Actually it did surprisingly little damage to the outside. Of course
it meant a complete engine tear down and new prop.




Bertie
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:45:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Bob F." wrote in
:

Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no matter
what you do with the switches.


Though I knew some tit who used to pull the lever up at the start of the
take off roll and rely on the prox switch on the gear to do the rest for
him.

Guess what?

Ahhhh...Don't the struts start to extend long before the plane is
ready to fly?:-))


Bertie
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:4k3gb5-8k8.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:tmaeb5-6dn.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Why would you need a gear check for takeoff?


Corporate pilot picks up the newly painted and upholsterd
Aero
Commander
and didn't check the gear switch.

About half way down the runway (where the bump was) the gear
sucks
up
and the newly painted belly scapes for a while, but the thing
gets
airborne.

Once around the pattern and back to the shop for new belly
skin
and
more paint.

That's why a gear check for takeoff.



Nope, that;'s why a cockpit safety inspection.

Semantics.


No, seperate checklist.

From the C172RG checklist in the POH:

Section 1, item 2. Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN

In the pre takeoff checks?

In the POH I have (1981) it has a section called "checklist
procedures".

It then has:

preflight inspection
before starting engine
starting engine
before takeoff
takeoff
etc.

"Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN" appears in both preflight inspection
and before starting engine.



But not in the before takeoff checks.
It appears in every retactable during the cockpit safety inspection (
your preflight begins with this, though it is not partitioned) And
often before engine start as a precaution. Never seen it in the
before takeoff checks.. You'd probably already know it wasnt down at
that point.

Semantics.


Nope. Different stages of operation distinct from each other.

Nope. There is but one checklist.

There are subsection for normal landing, short field landing, etc.,
but it is one checklist

The 172RG has a single checklist you are supposed to perform before
each flight.

There is nothing called anything near "cockpit safety inspection"
anywhere in it.

YMMV with other POH's.


No, not a POH at all.
So, your preflight checklist includes the runup? Not even a cub does
that.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm referring to the book with the big Cessna logo on the cover which
says 172RG.

And it includes runup.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Roger wrote in
:


Some years back I watched a guy in a Mooney try a go-around after the
gear failed to jack it up high enough for the prop to quit leaving
chaw marks. He (or the guy in the right seat) realized the folly in
that and then gave up. Starting at the numbers there was a line of
chaw marks fairly far apart which suddenly got real close together.
Then there was a couple hundred feet of clean runway followed by more
wide spaced chaw marks and then skid marks. He slid over half a mile
before leaving the runway.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. How did it happen? it just wasn;t down to
begin with or did it begin to retract after touchdown?


I had a drag link fail on a Twin Beech landing once and we went off the
side of the runway and bent the prop. they just bolted a new one on
overnight and we were flying it the next day.

Bertie

Roger wrote in
:

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:45:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Bob F." wrote in
m:

Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no
matter
what you do with the switches.


Though I knew some tit who used to pull the lever up at the start of
the
take off roll and rely on the prox switch on the gear to do the rest
for
him.

Guess what?

Ahhhh...Don't the struts start to extend long before the plane is
ready to fly?:-))


I suppose you could push hard and then rotate sharply. Lots of idiots
out there.

Bertie

wrote in news
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:n3fgb5-fbb.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:4k3gb5-8k8.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:tmaeb5-6dn.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Why would you need a gear check for takeoff?


Corporate pilot picks up the newly painted and upholsterd
Aero
Commander
and didn't check the gear switch.

About half way down the runway (where the bump was) the
gear
sucks
up
and the newly painted belly scapes for a while, but the
thing
gets
airborne.

Once around the pattern and back to the shop for new belly
skin
and
more paint.

That's why a gear check for takeoff.



Nope, that;'s why a cockpit safety inspection.

Semantics.


No, seperate checklist.

From the C172RG checklist in the POH:

Section 1, item 2. Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN

In the pre takeoff checks?

In the POH I have (1981) it has a section called "checklist
procedures".

It then has:

preflight inspection
before starting engine
starting engine
before takeoff
takeoff
etc.

"Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN" appears in both preflight
inspection
and before starting engine.



But not in the before takeoff checks.
It appears in every retactable during the cockpit safety
inspection (
your preflight begins with this, though it is not partitioned) And
often before engine start as a precaution. Never seen it in the
before takeoff checks.. You'd probably already know it wasnt down
at
that point.

Semantics.


Nope. Different stages of operation distinct from each other.

Nope. There is but one checklist.

There are subsection for normal landing, short field landing, etc.,
but it is one checklist

The 172RG has a single checklist you are supposed to perform before
each flight.

There is nothing called anything near "cockpit safety inspection"
anywhere in it.

YMMV with other POH's.


No, not a POH at all.
So, your preflight checklist includes the runup? Not even a cub does
that.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Apparently.

I'm referring to the book with the big Cessna logo on the cover which
says 172RG.

And it includes runup.


I'm sure it does. So you use one long checklist fot the preflight,
startup and before takeoff checks?

That wouldn't be a checklist it would be a "how to fly a 172" set of
instructions.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:n3fgb5-fbb.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:4k3gb5-8k8.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:tmaeb5-6dn.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Why would you need a gear check for takeoff?


Corporate pilot picks up the newly painted and upholsterd
Aero
Commander
and didn't check the gear switch.

About half way down the runway (where the bump was) the
gear
sucks
up
and the newly painted belly scapes for a while, but the
thing
gets
airborne.

Once around the pattern and back to the shop for new belly
skin
and
more paint.

That's why a gear check for takeoff.



Nope, that;'s why a cockpit safety inspection.

Semantics.


No, seperate checklist.

From the C172RG checklist in the POH:

Section 1, item 2. Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN

In the pre takeoff checks?

In the POH I have (1981) it has a section called "checklist
procedures".

It then has:

preflight inspection
before starting engine
starting engine
before takeoff
takeoff
etc.

"Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN" appears in both preflight
inspection
and before starting engine.



But not in the before takeoff checks.
It appears in every retactable during the cockpit safety
inspection (
your preflight begins with this, though it is not partitioned) And
often before engine start as a precaution. Never seen it in the
before takeoff checks.. You'd probably already know it wasnt down
at
that point.

Semantics.


Nope. Different stages of operation distinct from each other.

Nope. There is but one checklist.

There are subsection for normal landing, short field landing, etc.,
but it is one checklist

The 172RG has a single checklist you are supposed to perform before
each flight.

There is nothing called anything near "cockpit safety inspection"
anywhere in it.

YMMV with other POH's.


No, not a POH at all.
So, your preflight checklist includes the runup? Not even a cub does
that.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Apparently.

I'm referring to the book with the big Cessna logo on the cover which
says 172RG.

And it includes runup.


I'm sure it does. So you use one long checklist fot the preflight,
startup and before takeoff checks?

Yep.

That's how the instructor doing the training for the complex endorsement
said to do it; follow the manual checklist.

That wouldn't be a checklist it would be a "how to fly a 172" set of
instructions.

Nope.

The detail stuff is elsewhere.

The checklist for my Tiger follows the same format.

Hmmm, I looked in the manuals for the 152, 172N and 172R; same format.

The only one that doesn't follow that format is the Cherokee Warrior
from 1973.

I don't have a manual for a Cub.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news6qgb5-fuc.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:n3fgb5-fbb.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:4k3gb5-8k8.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:tmaeb5-6dn.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Why would you need a gear check for takeoff?


Corporate pilot picks up the newly painted and
upholsterd
Aero
Commander
and didn't check the gear switch.

About half way down the runway (where the bump was) the
gear
sucks
up
and the newly painted belly scapes for a while, but the
thing
gets
airborne.

Once around the pattern and back to the shop for new
belly
skin
and
more paint.

That's why a gear check for takeoff.



Nope, that;'s why a cockpit safety inspection.

Semantics.


No, seperate checklist.

From the C172RG checklist in the POH:

Section 1, item 2. Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN

In the pre takeoff checks?

In the POH I have (1981) it has a section called "checklist
procedures".

It then has:

preflight inspection
before starting engine
starting engine
before takeoff
takeoff
etc.

"Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN" appears in both preflight
inspection
and before starting engine.



But not in the before takeoff checks.
It appears in every retactable during the cockpit safety
inspection (
your preflight begins with this, though it is not partitioned)
And
often before engine start as a precaution. Never seen it in the
before takeoff checks.. You'd probably already know it wasnt
down
at
that point.

Semantics.


Nope. Different stages of operation distinct from each other.

Nope. There is but one checklist.

There are subsection for normal landing, short field landing, etc.,
but it is one checklist

The 172RG has a single checklist you are supposed to perform
before
each flight.

There is nothing called anything near "cockpit safety
inspection"
anywhere in it.

YMMV with other POH's.


No, not a POH at all.
So, your preflight checklist includes the runup? Not even a cub
does
that.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Apparently.

I'm referring to the book with the big Cessna logo on the cover
which
says 172RG.

And it includes runup.


I'm sure it does. So you use one long checklist fot the preflight,
startup and before takeoff checks?

Yep.

That's how the instructor doing the training for the complex
endorsement
said to do it; follow the manual checklist.

That wouldn't be a checklist it would be a "how to fly a 172" set of
instructions.

Nope.

The detail stuff is elsewhere.

The checklist for my Tiger follows the same format.

Hmmm, I looked in the manuals for the 152, 172N and 172R; same format.

The only one that doesn't follow that format is the Cherokee Warrior
from 1973.


Then they're not checklists. They're do lists.


Bertie

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 05:46:15 -0700 (PDT), Dan
wrote:

On Mar 22, 8:41 am, Ron Natalie wrote:

Negatory good buddy. Maybe not the mains, but a lot of planes
can get the nose gear going up enough to hit the prop.

The Bonanza mains certainly won't (close inboard), but the nose gear
-- might.

Note when setting still the mains tilt inward on a Bo.
If you are even rolling slowly they certainly will retract. When they
are rolling you aren't pulling straight sideways and they can move
easily. Once past the over center lock the gear mechanism is holding
them back as they will be trying to come up faster than the motor can
move them.

It gets a bit confusing trying to explain as the first thing the
retraction mechanism does is "open" the inner doors before starting
the actual retraction of the mains. Once that door passes a given
point the gear will come up...OK, the gear will stay on the pavement
and the plane will come down, but the retraction sequence will happen.
many a Bonanza has found itself setting the exhaust stacks while still
on the taxiway.


I really never want to know.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 02:13:23 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Roger wrote in
:


Some years back I watched a guy in a Mooney try a go-around after the
gear failed to jack it up high enough for the prop to quit leaving
chaw marks. He (or the guy in the right seat) realized the folly in
that and then gave up. Starting at the numbers there was a line of
chaw marks fairly far apart which suddenly got real close together.
Then there was a couple hundred feet of clean runway followed by more
wide spaced chaw marks and then skid marks. He slid over half a mile
before leaving the runway.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. How did it happen? it just wasn;t down to
begin with or did it begin to retract after touchdown?

The guy "said" the gear failed when they set down but my take was he
hit the gear down switch right after that terrible noise started up
front, or too late to prevent it. In either case it appears to me the
thing was trying to raise the plane before the gear was fully
extended. The nose gear doors were still closed as well..
One we had the plane in the harness we were able to lower the gear
with the exception of the starboard side which had the long push rod
badly bent. That we had to drive a 2 X 6 into place to hold it down.

He was about a half mile from me at the numbers and the Mooney sits
very close to the ground so something could have failed as it set
down on the gear which would have been difficult for me to see, but
....

OTOH this was the first flight after the annual.:-))



I had a drag link fail on a Twin Beech landing once and we went off the
side of the runway and bent the prop. they just bolted a new one on
overnight and we were flying it the next day.

Bertie
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com