Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !

On Mar 26, 6:55*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Jay Maynard wrote:
On 2008-03-25, Jim Logajan wrote:
Zoom Campbell may well be a kook. Phil Boyer is not.
But Phil Boyer can be mistaken or otherwise taken in by deliberately
deceptive reporting. Have you seen any mention of this alleged issue
on, say, AvWeb or EAA's web sites?

No. That doesn't mean it's not an issue. I'll believe it's not an
issue when AOPA says it's not an issue. As I've said before, AOPA is
not in the habit of crying wolf.

Jay, it now looks like the EAA also now thinks it is an issue:

http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/2008-03-25_florida.asp

It contains the specific sections of the FL tax code that it has
concerns about. I did a bit of searching and found the "Official
Internet Site of the Florida Legislature" and the code in question is
here (212.05 and 212.06):

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...Display_Statut...

The EAA letter mentions two pending bills in the FL house and senate
that address the issue, which can be found he

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sectio...l.aspx?BillId=...

and he

http://www.flsenate.gov/session/inde...illInfo&Mode=B....

One caveat: there are a lot of states in the U.S. with sales and use
taxes and it would not surprise me if others also contain ambiguous laws
that can cause pocketbook grief to the unwary if the tax authorities got
aggressive.

Again if this issue is 7 months old why didn't it come up during the
Light Sport Expo this January. The only thing I can see is zzzoom
doesn't have a bone to pick with them. Seems to me that if this was as
big a deal it has been made out to be the Florida Dept of Revenue
would have had a field day there.

If you read the AOPA letter to the FDOR it relates that members are "
concerned " about this. I still think that this goes back to one
person yelling fire in the theater and causing a stampede.

Frank M.Hitlaw at my Secret World Hq

wrote:
Again if this issue is 7 months old why didn't it come up during the
Light Sport Expo this January. The only thing I can see is zzzoom
doesn't have a bone to pick with them. Seems to me that if this was as
big a deal it has been made out to be the Florida Dept of Revenue
would have had a field day there.

If you read the AOPA letter to the FDOR it relates that members are "
concerned " about this. I still think that this goes back to one
person yelling fire in the theater and causing a stampede.

I am general agreement with all that.

Two takes:

On one side are those who claim the issue is real and aircraft owners
visiting Florida must be getting hit right and left by zealous tax
collectors (else why would the AOPA and EAA be taking up the issue) so the
"zoom bashers" are obviously blinded by their dislike of the fellow.

On the other side are those who claim the issue concerns long established
law and a few unsubstantiated incidents whose facts are incomplete spread
by a person with a vendetta and reinforced by a large number of people
easily driven to hysteria.

Obviously both sides can be made to look irrational. ;-)

Jim Logajan wrote:
wrote:
Again if this issue is 7 months old why didn't it come up during the
Light Sport Expo this January. The only thing I can see is zzzoom
doesn't have a bone to pick with them. Seems to me that if this was as
big a deal it has been made out to be the Florida Dept of Revenue
would have had a field day there.

If you read the AOPA letter to the FDOR it relates that members are "
concerned " about this. I still think that this goes back to one
person yelling fire in the theater and causing a stampede.

I am general agreement with all that.

Two takes:

On one side are those who claim the issue is real and aircraft owners
visiting Florida must be getting hit right and left by zealous tax
collectors (else why would the AOPA and EAA be taking up the issue) so the
"zoom bashers" are obviously blinded by their dislike of the fellow.

On the other side are those who claim the issue concerns long established
law and a few unsubstantiated incidents whose facts are incomplete spread
by a person with a vendetta and reinforced by a large number of people
easily driven to hysteria.

Obviously both sides can be made to look irrational. ;-)

I vote on the side of "a person with a vendetta"

John

On 2008-03-27, Jim Logajan wrote:
On one side are those who claim the issue is real and aircraft owners
visiting Florida must be getting hit right and left by zealous tax
collectors (else why would the AOPA and EAA be taking up the issue) so the
"zoom bashers" are obviously blinded by their dislike of the fellow.

This is overstating the case a bit. I'm not saying that aircraft owners must
be getting hit right and left; what I am saying is that there's fire beneath
all of the smoke, and dismissing it entirely because Zoom is raising the
issue is wrong. Not even Zoom is wrong 100% of the time.

Put another way, if Zoom came out against the current ADS-B proposal, would
that mean that it was good?

This is one case of one of Niven's Laws: "There is no idea so good that you
cannot find a fool who supports it."
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

In article , Jay Maynard says...

This is overstating the case a bit. I'm not saying that aircraft owners must
be getting hit right and left; what I am saying is that there's fire beneath
all of the smoke, and dismissing it entirely because Zoom is raising the
issue is wrong. Not even Zoom is wrong 100% of the time.

The overstating is being done by zoom. There is a lot of smoke and that's where
zoom operates , in the smoky grey area where he can create his own perception
out of a different reality. zoom put his own spin on this bit of reality in an
effort to harm Sun n Fun. No one said he was totally wrong ,there might be a tax
problem in Florida, it's just that his take on it was tainted by his vendetta
for Sun n Fun. You say even zoom isn't wrong 100% of the time well neither are
the zoom bashers.And we all have good reason not to trust zoom even if he seems
right. It has to do with his credibility as a journalist but that's for another
day.

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

"credibility it was always about credibility"

On 2008-03-27, ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
The overstating is being done by zoom. There is a lot of smoke and that's where
zoom operates , in the smoky grey area where he can create his own perception
out of a different reality. zoom put his own spin on this bit of reality in an
effort to harm Sun n Fun. No one said he was totally wrong ,there might be a tax
problem in Florida, it's just that his take on it was tainted by his vendetta
for Sun n Fun. You say even zoom isn't wrong 100% of the time well neither are
the zoom bashers.And we all have good reason not to trust zoom even if he seems
right. It has to do with his credibility as a journalist but that's for another
day.

I'm not saying the folks slamming Zoom are wrong. I understand you've got a
history there that justifies your approach to anything he says.

What I am taking exception to is that you're discounting the whole Florida
affair because of your history with him, even though other, reputable
sources are reporting the same things. If you look past your history with
Zoom, you'll see that there's still a problem, and it needs to be brought
into the light. It's not just Zoom's take on things. If it was, AOPA and EAA
wouldn't be reporting on it. If AOPA and EAA report that it's not a problem,
then and only then will I believe it's not. I don't care what Zoom has to
say about it. I do care what those two organizations say.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On Mar 27, 3:37*am, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-03-27, Jim Logajan wrote:

On one side are those who claim the issue is real and aircraft owners
visiting Florida must be getting hit right and left by zealous tax
collectors (else why would the AOPA and EAA be taking up the issue) so the
"zoom bashers" are obviously blinded by their dislike of the fellow.

This is overstating the case a bit. I'm not saying that aircraft owners must
be getting hit right and left; what I am saying is that there's fire beneath
all of the smoke, and dismissing it entirely because Zoom is raising the
issue is wrong. Not even Zoom is wrong 100% of the time.

Put another way, if Zoom came out against the current ADS-B proposal, would
that mean that it was good?

This is one case of one of Niven's Laws: "There is no idea so good that you
cannot find a fool who supports it."
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC * * * * * * * * *http://www.conmicro.comhttp://jmaynard.livejournal.com* * *http://www.tronguy.nethttp://www..hercules-390.org* * * * * * * (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff athttp://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Jay,

I don't think anybody has a problem with ANN reporting the issue.
That is not a problem at all and it rightfully should be reported.
The issue that many of us have is that instead of just reporting the
problem and trying to promote a solution, ANN used it as yet another
excuse to try and destroy the Sun-N-Fun flyin. Instead of encouraging
all involved to contact Florida and others who might be able to
promote a solution, Campbell instead decided to encourage people to
stay away from Sun-N-Fun with that as an added threat.

A.N.N. and Campbell are like a stopped clock, it is 100% correct twice
a day but otherwise good for nothing.

On 2008-03-27, BobR wrote:
I don't think anybody has a problem with ANN reporting the issue.
That is not a problem at all and it rightfully should be reported.
The issue that many of us have is that instead of just reporting the
problem and trying to promote a solution, ANN used it as yet another
excuse to try and destroy the Sun-N-Fun flyin. Instead of encouraging
all involved to contact Florida and others who might be able to
promote a solution, Campbell instead decided to encourage people to
stay away from Sun-N-Fun with that as an added threat.

If you knew that you were going to get slapped with a five-figure tax bill
you otherwise wouldn't owe just for flying to Sun n Fun, would you go?

I don't care about Zoom's motives. I don't care that it was Zoom who broke
the story. I don't care about his choice of timing. I do care that there's a
problem that's real enough to get AOPA and EAA involved. If they find it's
groundless, I'll stop worrying, no matter what Zoom has to say about it.

A.N.N. and Campbell are like a stopped clock, it is 100% correct twice
a day but otherwise good for nothing.

Perhaps. Even so, you can't ignore this one just because Zoom reported it
because others who actually have credibility are also reporting it. If it
was just Zoom, things might well be different.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On Mar 27, 9:13*am, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-03-27, BobR wrote:

I don't think anybody has a problem with ANN reporting the issue.
That is not a problem at all and it rightfully should be reported.
The issue that many of us have is that instead of just reporting the
problem and trying to promote a solution, ANN used it as yet another
excuse to try and destroy the Sun-N-Fun flyin. *Instead of encouraging
all involved to contact Florida and others who might be able to
promote a solution, Campbell instead decided to encourage people to
stay away from Sun-N-Fun with that as an added threat.

If you knew that you were going to get slapped with a five-figure tax bill
you otherwise wouldn't owe just for flying to Sun n Fun, would you go?

I don't care about Zoom's motives. I don't care that it was Zoom who broke
the story. I don't care about his choice of timing. I do care that there's a
problem that's real enough to get AOPA and EAA involved. If they find it's
groundless, I'll stop worrying, no matter what Zoom has to say about it.

A.N.N. and Campbell are like a stopped clock, it is 100% correct twice
a day but otherwise good for nothing.

Perhaps. Even so, you can't ignore this one just because Zoom reported it
because others who actually have credibility are also reporting it. If it
was just Zoom, things might well be different.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC * * * * * * * * *http://www.conmicro.comhttp://jmaynard.livejournal.com* * *http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) * * * * * * * * * * * *(Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

You continue to argue that it needed to be reported and we all agree.
Nobody is ignoring the issue.

What you don't seem to understand or I suspect you just don't give a
damn (based on your own motives statement) is that the way the story
was presented, it was a direct attempt to do harm to both Sun-N-Fun
and indirectly everyone who attends in order to display their products
and services. Motives do matter and factual presentation along with
credibility also matter.

On 2008-03-27, BobR wrote:
What you don't seem to understand or I suspect you just don't give a
damn (based on your own motives statement) is that the way the story
was presented, it was a direct attempt to do harm to both Sun-N-Fun
and indirectly everyone who attends in order to display their products
and services. Motives do matter and factual presentation along with
credibility also matter.

I don't care what Zoom's motives are. The story is what matters.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)