How much longer?

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:07:57 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:



An interesting question to ponder: At what price point do the masses rise up
and over-ride the environmentalist rules that currently restrict the
process?

At what level of soreness do you wake up and realize how hard the
petroleum economy is f***ing you?

--
Dan
T182T at 4R4

At what level of soreness do you wake up and realize how hard the
petroleum economy is f***ing you?

Um, apropos of what, exactly?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:01:26 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

At what level of soreness do you wake up and realize how hard the
petroleum economy is f***ing you?

Um, apropos of what, exactly?

Your blindness to what it's really costing you, Jay.

Apparently you have no problem adding more hidden costs--on top of the
massive price of U. S. military adventures in the Middle East--by
allowing refiners to pollute the air and water. Not everything you
pay is at the pump.

It's time we got off the oil tit. If you think it's expensive now,
wait till China, and then India, surpass the U. S. as petroleum
consumers.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed121507b.cfm

It's time we got off the oil tit. If you think it's expensive now,
wait till China, and then India, surpass the U. S. as petroleum
consumers.

As much as I agree, this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing. What's
the alternative? We're going to need oil for the foreseeable future, and
hand-wringing isn't going to change that.

I, for one, am not willing to see my kids grow up in a world that has been
reduced to economic squalor simply to benefit a "green agenda". At some
point, probably when food and transportation costs are unaffordable due to
unreasonable environmentalist restrictions on research, the electorate will
rise up and overthrow the politicians who have created this mess. Only
then will we see fuel prices stabilize.

It will be an ugly time, I fear.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
It's time we got off the oil tit. If you think it's expensive now,
wait till China, and then India, surpass the U. S. as petroleum
consumers.

As much as I agree, this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
What's the alternative? We're going to need oil for the foreseeable
future, and hand-wringing isn't going to change that.

Who's advocating hand-wringing?



I, for one, am not willing to see my kids grow up in a world that has been
reduced to economic squalor simply to benefit a "green agenda".

Puh-leeze.


At some point, probably when food and transportation costs are
unaffordable due to unreasonable environmentalist restrictions on
research, the electorate will rise up and overthrow the politicians who
have created this mess. Only then will we see fuel prices stabilize.

How do you imagine petroleum prices will stabilize? The demand keeps
skyrocketing while oil gets harder and harder to extract. How's that going
to work?


It will be an ugly time, I fear.

It already is. We better find some good alternatives and fast.

Jay Honeck schrieb:
We're going to need oil for the foreseeable future, and
hand-wringing isn't going to change that.

is oil all you can think of? Su we can't make it _competletely_
without oil for the next time, but all you can think of is finding more
oil. You completely put away with any alternatives.

It will be an ugly time, I fear.

yes, but for other reasons, IMHO.

#m

On 2008-04-08, Martin Hotze wrote:
is oil all you can think of? Su we can't make it _competletely_
without oil for the next time, but all you can think of is finding more
oil. You completely put away with any alternatives.

Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On 2008-04-08, Jay Maynard wrote:
Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.

Diesel from algae has the potential for 10000 usg/acre used (and is more
of an industrial than agricultural process). So far it's not been
developed because oil has been so cheap.

The infrastructure already exists for that sort of fuel.

There's also no chicken and egg problem for using fuel more wisely.
We've only been wasteful of it because it's been so cheap it's not been
worth using it efficiently. There are significant efficiencies that can
be had that do not result in "economic squalor". For example, insulating
my Victorian house halved my winter heating bills and made the house
more pleasant to live in. Hardly 'squalor', in fact the very opposite.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Jay Maynard schrieb:
On 2008-04-08, Martin Hotze wrote:
is oil all you can think of? Su we can't make it _competletely_
without oil for the next time, but all you can think of is finding more
oil. You completely put away with any alternatives.

Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.

OK. So when will you start switching? In 19 years, 11 months and 30 days?

#m

Jay Honeck wrote:

I, for one, am not willing to see my kids grow up in a world that has
been reduced to economic squalor simply to benefit a "green agenda".

That's a tenable argument, but, the antebellum south said the same thing
about slavery. If we don't have slaves, how we gonna pick cotton? If
we don't have cotton, how we gonna afford the plantation?

Even before Eastwood cheapened the expression with that stupid-ass
movie, the Marines had a simple philosophy: Adapt and overcome.

Right now we are dependent upon terrorist oil and if we tap the Alaska
oil, it'll be eight years before it gets to market. Eight years ago, we
could have tapped Alaska, OR we could have spent the trillion dollars
we're blowing giving a damn what people do in Allah-land researching and
developing alternative energy with the tenacity that we developed the
atomic bomb and the moon lander.

Sadly, we did neither. We blew our money on stocks and let our energy
and telecom conglomerate executives annihilate our economy.

What troubles me more about RIGHT NOW is that western oil dependency is
more critical than ever; our economy is suffering and it's not just
America, but everywhere. The Osama types live in caves and mud huts.
They don't need oil, but, more importantly, they get it cheap. RIGHT
NOW would be their prime opportunity to attack an oil field or a
refinery or whatever it takes to give the oil barons further excuse to
jack up oil costs (/profits) and for maximum economic impact.

Right now, more than ever, we should be stomping the **** out of the
actual ANTI-WESTERN TERRORISTS and investing hell-for-leather in
releasing what Bush rightfully called our dependence on foreign oil.

The problem is, we all squandered too much time and money in the last
decade to solve our problems, and so here we are. (I get sick of
Republicrats and liberal/conservative propagandists pointing the finger
at each other. We're all responsible. We have to do what we have to
do, green agenda or not. What we have to do is get away from oil or
we're better off going back to horses, coal and steam.)

No sacrifice that I will make in my lifetime will equal the sacrifice my
brother's comrade made in the Anbar province when an IED blew half his
face off. The IED wasn't put there by Al Queda, just a local
warlord/mayor who didn't want his porn/drugs/movie/guns smuggling racket
broken up.

The dark side of me says, let Afghanistan grow poppy like there's no
tomorrow, and get Iran, Iraq, China and North Korea strung out on heroin
like they've got us strung out on oil and cheap lead-laden imports. (and
then kill anybody who tries to smuggle it into the western hemisphere)

Meanwhile, our idealogical enemies would love to sell us a new Cessna
Skycatcher or a fake Rolex. I hear they're cheap.

-c