How much longer?

At what level of soreness do you wake up and realize how hard the
petroleum economy is f***ing you?

Um, apropos of what, exactly?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:01:26 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

At what level of soreness do you wake up and realize how hard the
petroleum economy is f***ing you?

Um, apropos of what, exactly?

Your blindness to what it's really costing you, Jay.

Apparently you have no problem adding more hidden costs--on top of the
massive price of U. S. military adventures in the Middle East--by
allowing refiners to pollute the air and water. Not everything you
pay is at the pump.

It's time we got off the oil tit. If you think it's expensive now,
wait till China, and then India, surpass the U. S. as petroleum
consumers.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed121507b.cfm

It's time we got off the oil tit. If you think it's expensive now,
wait till China, and then India, surpass the U. S. as petroleum
consumers.

As much as I agree, this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing. What's
the alternative? We're going to need oil for the foreseeable future, and
hand-wringing isn't going to change that.

I, for one, am not willing to see my kids grow up in a world that has been
reduced to economic squalor simply to benefit a "green agenda". At some
point, probably when food and transportation costs are unaffordable due to
unreasonable environmentalist restrictions on research, the electorate will
rise up and overthrow the politicians who have created this mess. Only
then will we see fuel prices stabilize.

It will be an ugly time, I fear.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
It's time we got off the oil tit. If you think it's expensive now,
wait till China, and then India, surpass the U. S. as petroleum
consumers.

As much as I agree, this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
What's the alternative? We're going to need oil for the foreseeable
future, and hand-wringing isn't going to change that.

Who's advocating hand-wringing?



I, for one, am not willing to see my kids grow up in a world that has been
reduced to economic squalor simply to benefit a "green agenda".

Puh-leeze.


At some point, probably when food and transportation costs are
unaffordable due to unreasonable environmentalist restrictions on
research, the electorate will rise up and overthrow the politicians who
have created this mess. Only then will we see fuel prices stabilize.

How do you imagine petroleum prices will stabilize? The demand keeps
skyrocketing while oil gets harder and harder to extract. How's that going
to work?


It will be an ugly time, I fear.

It already is. We better find some good alternatives and fast.

Jay Honeck schrieb:
We're going to need oil for the foreseeable future, and
hand-wringing isn't going to change that.

is oil all you can think of? Su we can't make it _competletely_
without oil for the next time, but all you can think of is finding more
oil. You completely put away with any alternatives.

It will be an ugly time, I fear.

yes, but for other reasons, IMHO.

#m

On 2008-04-08, Martin Hotze wrote:
is oil all you can think of? Su we can't make it _competletely_
without oil for the next time, but all you can think of is finding more
oil. You completely put away with any alternatives.

Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On 2008-04-08, Jay Maynard wrote:
Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.

Diesel from algae has the potential for 10000 usg/acre used (and is more
of an industrial than agricultural process). So far it's not been
developed because oil has been so cheap.

The infrastructure already exists for that sort of fuel.

There's also no chicken and egg problem for using fuel more wisely.
We've only been wasteful of it because it's been so cheap it's not been
worth using it efficiently. There are significant efficiencies that can
be had that do not result in "economic squalor". For example, insulating
my Victorian house halved my winter heating bills and made the house
more pleasant to live in. Hardly 'squalor', in fact the very opposite.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Dylan Smith wrote in
:

On 2008-04-08, Jay Maynard wrote:
Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's
also a significant chicken-and-egg problem.

Diesel from algae has the potential for 10000 usg/acre used (and is
more of an industrial than agricultural process). So far it's not been
developed because oil has been so cheap.



Really? Haven't heard anything at all of this process.. I'll have to
have a look around unless you can shortcut me to somewhere ...




Bertie

The infrastructure already exists for that sort of fuel.

There's also no chicken and egg problem for using fuel more wisely.
We've only been wasteful of it because it's been so cheap it's not
been worth using it efficiently. There are significant efficiencies
that can be had that do not result in "economic squalor". For example,
insulating my Victorian house halved my winter heating bills and made
the house more pleasant to live in. Hardly 'squalor', in fact the very
opposite.

Dylan Smith wrote:
On 2008-04-08, Jay Maynard wrote:
Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.

Diesel from algae has the potential for 10000 usg/acre used (and is more
of an industrial than agricultural process). So far it's not been
developed because oil has been so cheap.

Sure we can. The only problem is that if say Chevron said they were
going to build a plant to do just that there would be a "Save the Algae"
protest scheduled the the next day and the environmental impact study
would take 20 years.

Jay Maynard schrieb:
On 2008-04-08, Martin Hotze wrote:
is oil all you can think of? Su we can't make it _competletely_
without oil for the next time, but all you can think of is finding more
oil. You completely put away with any alternatives.

Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.

OK. So when will you start switching? In 19 years, 11 months and 30 days?

#m