Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.

"Eunometic" wrote in message
...

I note that the USN Grumman EA-6B is being used to create a jammed
space around ground US patrols in Iraq.

The jamming prevents the detonation of improvised explosive devices.
Presumably highly directional
electronically shaped antenna create temporal grace around the patrol.

The British did something similar in Northern Ireland.

The IRA switched to command detonated devices.

After the British started looking for the wires after the bang they moved on
to more sophisticated radio equipment such as that found on the dead IRA
people shot in Gibraltar which required a series of thumb wheels to be set
to the correct number to transmit the firing signal.

The stuff is 'Radio Amateur' technology and can be picked up in any major
city.

It is reasonable to assume that the Iraqi bad guys have access to all this
sort of thing at that technical escalation will happen in exactly the same
way...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.


..

"Juergen Nieveler" wrote in message
. ..
"William Black" wrote:

It is reasonable to assume that the Iraqi bad guys have access to all
this sort of thing at that technical escalation will happen in exactly
the same way...

Or they'll stick to line-of-sight stuff like IR or lasers, or they'll
switch to using mobile phones and planting the bombs in areas where
people will complain abou too frequent mobile phone outages.

Or they'll shift to using something that detects a jam of the radio-
command-link and then activates a motion sensor... after all, jamming
means "the patrol is coming, get ready".


The more sophisticated jammers only switch on when a signal is detected,
hopefully quickly enough to stop a detonation.

Jeff

"Jeff" wrote in message
. com...


The more sophisticated jammers only switch on when a signal is detected,
hopefully quickly enough to stop a detonation.

They'll make electronic garage door openers, radio type car alarm tags and
a huge assortment of other things entertaining to use...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

In message , William Black
writes

"Jeff" wrote in message
.com...


The more sophisticated jammers only switch on when a signal is detected,
hopefully quickly enough to stop a detonation.

They'll make electronic garage door openers, radio type car alarm tags and
a huge assortment of other things entertaining to use...

You'll just have to wait for the HMMWVs to drive past before your car
will unlock, your garage door open or your cordless phone ring.

It's counterproductive to shut down a neighbourhood, you just need to
prevent detonations within lethal distance.

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , William Black
writes

"Jeff" wrote in message
e.com...


The more sophisticated jammers only switch on when a signal is detected,
hopefully quickly enough to stop a detonation.

They'll make electronic garage door openers, radio type car alarm tags
and
a huge assortment of other things entertaining to use...

You'll just have to wait for the HMMWVs to drive past before your car will
unlock, your garage door open or your cordless phone ring.

It's counterproductive to shut down a neighbourhood, you just need to
prevent detonations within lethal distance.


It also gives a nice easy system to tell the snipers that they're coming.

Sound of telephone ringing, a voice says "They are at point Mustapha" (or
"Aunty Fatima says your washing is ready" if they're being really paranoid
about things)

The guy knows they'll be around the corner any minute and redies his .50
calibre sniper rifle...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

In message , William Black
writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
You'll just have to wait for the HMMWVs to drive past before your car will
unlock, your garage door open or your cordless phone ring.

It's counterproductive to shut down a neighbourhood, you just need to
prevent detonations within lethal distance.


It also gives a nice easy system to tell the snipers that they're coming.

Sound of telephone ringing, a voice says "They are at point Mustapha" (or
"Aunty Fatima says your washing is ready" if they're being really paranoid
about things)

The guy knows they'll be around the corner any minute and redies his .50
calibre sniper rifle...

You need less than that. Not much help for the snipers...

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com

"Juergen Nieveler" wrote in message
. ..

BTW, do those jammers send white noise, or are they smart enough to
fake a signal? Say, I build a small detonator from RC car parts, and it
depends on the transmitter sending "left, right, left..." every 30
seconds, with a timer starting on every signal, counting down until the
opposite side timer is started.

With a white noise jammer, no signal gets through anymore, 30 seconds
later you get *bang*...

All this stuff came out at the inquest into the people shot in Gib. The
claim was made that the security forces should be able to jam the signal.

They explained in some detail why they couldn't.

It seems that the IRA people used a Trio Radio Amateur 144 MHz pocket radio
system that requires a sequence of reversals transmitted by VHF FSK to
trigger an open channel. The sequence is set by a row of five thumbwheels,
each of ten digits.

So you've got a million, minus one, possible combinations.

I leave as an exercise for the reader the calculation of the linear
recursive sequence necessary to trigger the thing prematurely...

This, of course, assumes the security forces know the radio frequency and
the FSK baud rate and frequency shift.

White noise generators don't work once the bad guys get up to 'radio
amateur' levels of knowledge of triggering technology...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Apr 8, 7:41*am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Juergen Nieveler" wrote in message

. ..



BTW, do those jammers send white noise, or are they smart enough to
fake a signal? Say, I build a small detonator from RC car parts, and it
depends on the transmitter sending "left, right, left..." every 30
seconds, with a timer starting on every signal, counting down until the
opposite side timer is started.

With a white noise jammer, no signal gets through anymore, 30 seconds
later you get *bang*...

All this stuff came out at the inquest into the people shot in Gib. The
claim was made that the security forces should be able to jam the signal.

They explained in some detail why they couldn't.

It seems that the IRA people used a Trio Radio Amateur 144 MHz pocket radio
system that requires a sequence of reversals transmitted by VHF FSK to
trigger an open channel. *The sequence is set by a row of five thumbwheels,
each of ten digits.

So you've got a million, minus one, possible combinations.

I leave as an exercise for the reader the calculation of the linear
recursive sequence necessary to trigger the thing prematurely...

This, *of course, assumes the security forces know the radio frequency and
the FSK baud rate and frequency shift.

White noise generators don't work once the bad guys get up to 'radio
amateur' levels of knowledge of triggering technology...


Gibraltar was 20 years ago. They've learned a lot since then and
deaths from IED's have dropped dramatically since the USN's EW experts
have trained the soldiers to use the equipment correctly.

"They called themselves "sand sailors," and they did their job well by
reducing IED fatalities at their bases. Monthly U.S. troop deaths from
IEDs have dropped since reaching a high of 90 in May to 17 last month,
in part because of their efforts, the military said in awarding Bronze
Stars to Dye and others."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ead_ied_fight/


BB

I guess everybody has some mountain to climb.
It's just fate whether you live in Kansas or Tibet...

"BlackBeard" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 7:41 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Juergen Nieveler" wrote in message

. ..



BTW, do those jammers send white noise, or are they smart enough to
fake a signal? Say, I build a small detonator from RC car parts, and it
depends on the transmitter sending "left, right, left..." every 30
seconds, with a timer starting on every signal, counting down until the
opposite side timer is started.

With a white noise jammer, no signal gets through anymore, 30 seconds
later you get *bang*...

All this stuff came out at the inquest into the people shot in Gib. The
claim was made that the security forces should be able to jam the signal.

They explained in some detail why they couldn't.

It seems that the IRA people used a Trio Radio Amateur 144 MHz pocket
radio
system that requires a sequence of reversals transmitted by VHF FSK to
trigger an open channel. The sequence is set by a row of five thumbwheels,
each of ten digits.

So you've got a million, minus one, possible combinations.

I leave as an exercise for the reader the calculation of the linear
recursive sequence necessary to trigger the thing prematurely...

This, of course, assumes the security forces know the radio frequency and
the FSK baud rate and frequency shift.

White noise generators don't work once the bad guys get up to 'radio
amateur' levels of knowledge of triggering technology...


Gibraltar was 20 years ago. They've learned a lot since then and
deaths from IED's have dropped dramatically since the USN's EW experts
have trained the soldiers to use the equipment correctly.

"They called themselves "sand sailors," and they did their job well by
reducing IED fatalities at their bases. Monthly U.S. troop deaths from
IEDs have dropped since reaching a high of 90 in May to 17 last month,
in part because of their efforts, the military said in awarding Bronze
Stars to Dye and others."

----------------------------

Almost certainly the big drop was caused by training people how to spot the
bloody things.

Messing with the trigger mechanism is very much a secondary thing, the best
solution is not to park next door to one...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Apr 8, 9:15*am, "William Black"
wrote:


Almost certainly the big drop was caused by training people how to spot the
bloody things.


Not according to the article.

"Thomas said the technology works by "basically providing a protective
bubble around a vehicle," jamming incoming signals and blocking the
remote detonation of bombs."

BB

I guess everybody has some mountain to climb.
It's just fate whether you live in Kansas or Tibet...