How much longer?

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:

Diesel from algae has the potential for 10000 usg/acre used (and is
more of an industrial than agricultural process). So far it's not been
developed because oil has been so cheap.



Really? Haven't heard anything at all of this process.. I'll have to
have a look around unless you can shortcut me to somewhere ...


http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

"Dan Luke" wrote in
news

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:

Diesel from algae has the potential for 10000 usg/acre used (and is
more of an industrial than agricultural process). So far it's not
been
developed because oil has been so cheap.



Really? Haven't heard anything at all of this process.. I'll have to
have a look around unless you can shortcut me to somewhere ...


http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html



Hmm, very good. A bit tainted by his hydrogen info, though, which is a
bit off in spots.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:



Hmm, very good. A bit tainted by his hydrogen info, though, which is a
bit off in spots.

I don't know much about it.

Where's he off about hydrogen?

"Dan Luke" wrote in
m:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:



Hmm, very good. A bit tainted by his hydrogen info, though, which is
a
bit off in spots.

I don't know much about it.

Where's he off about hydrogen?




Well, he dismisses it pretty much out of hand for all the wrong reasons.
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as the
safety issue. I only mention it because it calls into question the rest
of his article in my mind. If half of what he says about algae based
diesel is true, though, it sounds very promising.
In any case, there are a number of potential sources of fuels that have
recently become cheaper options than petro-chemical fuels. All it takes
now is a little education and a little will to get moving on them.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as the
safety issue.

The information I've found on metal hydrides is not nearly so optimistic.
Allegedly about 4 times heavier per unit of energy than gasoline and many
of the known metal hydrides (e.g. lithium) themselves being health hazards.

Jim Logajan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as
the safety issue.

The information I've found on metal hydrides is not nearly so
optimistic. Allegedly about 4 times heavier per unit of energy than
gasoline and many of the known metal hydrides (e.g. lithium)
themselves being health hazards.


Well, they're tanked for life and like for like the crap that's in
modern gasoline is probably worse. Metal hydrides are heavy, no doubt
about it. Very heavy. Too heavy for airplanes, certainly. There's a
number of hydride combinations that look to improve on that. They do
provide a practical way of carrying H2 safely in a reasonable volume,
though. I'd be a lot more comfortable driving a car so equipped than an
H2 powered car with a simple pressure tank. They have another drawback
as well. Temperature. The hydrides only release the H2 at a usable rate
when the temperature in the tank is high enough. How high depends on the
hydrides used, but it's warmer than ambient most of the year. So you
need to heat it up a bit. Not a big problem, but it is an added
complication.


Bertie

Jim Logajan wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as
the safety issue.

The information I've found on metal hydrides is not nearly so
optimistic. Allegedly about 4 times heavier per unit of energy than
gasoline and many of the known metal hydrides (e.g. lithium)
themselves being health hazards.

One other issue with metal hydrides for storage of hydrogen is the energy
needed to load/unload them. The loading with hydrogen is an exotherm
process, while refuelling your typical family car in 5-10 minutes for a
range of 300 miles (comparable to a liquid hydrocarbon fuel), you would have
to dissipate around 400 kW of heat energy. To retrive the hydrogen, you have
to put that same energy back into the storage unit by heating it.

regards,
Friedrich

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 19:58:20 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Where's he off about hydrogen?




Well, he dismisses it pretty much out of hand for all the wrong reasons.
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as the
safety issue.

Seems like a non-starter for a number of other reasons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel


I only mention it because it calls into question the rest
of his article in my mind. If half of what he says about algae based
diesel is true, though, it sounds very promising.
In any case, there are a number of potential sources of fuels that have
recently become cheaper options than petro-chemical fuels. All it takes
now is a little education and a little will to get moving on them.

Yes, and the removal of oil men from high office in the U. S.

Dan Luke wrote in
:

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 19:58:20 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Where's he off about hydrogen?




Well, he dismisses it pretty much out of hand for all the wrong
reasons.
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as
the
safety issue.

Seems like a non-starter for a number of other reasons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel

Well, if it were al we had it would certainly be made to work. Hell, f
all we had was wound up rubber bands that technology would be a lot
further along as well.


I only mention it because it calls into question the rest
of his article in my mind. If half of what he says about algae based
diesel is true, though, it sounds very promising.
In any case, there are a number of potential sources of fuels that
have
recently become cheaper options than petro-chemical fuels. All it
takes
now is a little education and a little will to get moving on them.

Yes, and the removal of oil men from high office in the U. S.

That would go hand in hand with education!


Bertie

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
news

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:

Diesel from algae has the potential for 10000 usg/acre used (and is
more of an industrial than agricultural process). So far it's not been
developed because oil has been so cheap.



Really? Haven't heard anything at all of this process.. I'll have to
have a look around unless you can shortcut me to somewhere ...


http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

No time to study it next week, but this sort of thing has a way of including
a decimal point in the wrong place. It could still be a very good and
economically viable idea; just not a solution to 100% of the requirement.
That can also be a good thing, because a single source of amost anything is
a risky proposition.

Peter