The ethanol nightmare has arrived!

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Electric transportation will require a major breakthrough in battery
technology which may or may not ever happen, as well as increased grid
infrastructure.

I look for the next venture cycle to be the installation of solar
generating equipment in industry and homes, much the same way the
dot-com Internet boom occurred. As it is, photovoltaic hardware
production significantly lags demand, but large productions facilities
are imminently due to become operational worldwide.

Locally generated power is destined to become mainstream if for no
other reason than the redundancy distributed power generation
provides.

Redundancy is a very usefull feature, sometimes the most usefull...

Peter
I still like Ike!

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Electric transportation will require a major breakthrough in battery
technology which may or may not ever happen, as well as increased grid
infrastructure.

I look for the next venture cycle to be the installation of solar
generating equipment in industry and homes, much the same way the
dot-com Internet boom occurred. As it is, photovoltaic hardware
production significantly lags demand, but large productions facilities
are imminently due to become operational worldwide.

Locally generated power is destined to become mainstream if for no
other reason than the redundancy distributed power generation
provides.

Sam's (the warehouse division of Wal-Mart) has a $40,000 package
available in their recent catalog that includes, a long with a bunch of
energy star appliances, a solar system and a electricity generating
windmill. The package includes installation and a one week eco-friendly
vacation for you to take while they are installing everything.

"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in news:SDfNj.49945
:

Ever wonder why they never became popular?

Gas Refrigerators were pretty dirty. After about a year of operation,
there was a large black streak up the wall.

wrote

Well, since frequency and phase out of a mechanical generator is RPM
dependent, you would either have to have an infinite ratio transmission
or a DC generator followed by a controllable inverter.

I'll bet that they have the inverter.

It would make sense, since they have to be able to jump around from system to
system, with different voltages, and different frequencies.
--
Jim in NC

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Electric transportation will require a major breakthrough in battery
technology which may or may not ever happen, as well as increased grid
infrastructure.

I look for the next venture cycle to be the installation of solar
generating equipment in industry and homes, much the same way the
dot-com Internet boom occurred. As it is, photovoltaic hardware
production significantly lags demand, but large productions facilities
are imminently due to become operational worldwide.

Locally generated power is destined to become mainstream if for no
other reason than the redundancy distributed power generation
provides.

California is in the second or third round of this; I lose track.

It will go down the dumper once again as the payback time, even with
tax credits, is measured in decades.

Get the total installed cost payback time under 4 to 5 years, then
something may happen.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:45:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Electric transportation will require a major breakthrough in battery
technology which may or may not ever happen, as well as increased grid
infrastructure.

I look for the next venture cycle to be the installation of solar
generating equipment in industry and homes, much the same way the
dot-com Internet boom occurred. As it is, photovoltaic hardware
production significantly lags demand, but large productions facilities
are imminently due to become operational worldwide.

Locally generated power is destined to become mainstream if for no
other reason than the redundancy distributed power generation
provides.

California is in the second or third round of this; I lose track.

It will go down the dumper once again as the payback time, even with
tax credits, is measured in decades.


Fortunately, there's more to on-site solar generated electricity than
merely the time it takes to pay for the equipment. Why do you think
Toyota Prius buyers were willing to pay 36% OVER book price for them
when they were introduced? A lot of folks see it as their civic
responsibility to take action to protect the environment.

An then there's the independence from centrally generated utility
power that redundancy provides.

Get the total installed cost payback time under 4 to 5 years, then
something may happen.

With the 90% run up in petroleum prices over the last decade*, I look
for electricity, in fact nearly all goods and many services, to
reflect the rising energy costs with higher prices. With more
photovoltaic fabrication facilities poised to come on-line, there's a
chance of some price competition in solar generating equipment. So if
rising Edison bills and reduced solar equipment costs fail to make the
payback more attractive, perhaps the prospect of rolling-blackouts
this summer will. :-)


* http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1947.gif



--

"We need an energy policy that encourages consumption"
George W. Bush, Trenton, NJ Sept 2002.


"Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue, but it is not a
sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy." --Vice
President Cheney

On 2008-04-16, Larry Dighera wrote:
Fortunately, there's more to on-site solar generated electricity than
merely the time it takes to pay for the equipment. Why do you think
Toyota Prius buyers were willing to pay 36% OVER book price for them
when they were introduced? A lot of folks see it as their civic
responsibility to take action to protect the environment.

There's one born every minute.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:45:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Electric transportation will require a major breakthrough in battery
technology which may or may not ever happen, as well as increased grid
infrastructure.

I look for the next venture cycle to be the installation of solar
generating equipment in industry and homes, much the same way the
dot-com Internet boom occurred. As it is, photovoltaic hardware
production significantly lags demand, but large productions facilities
are imminently due to become operational worldwide.

Locally generated power is destined to become mainstream if for no
other reason than the redundancy distributed power generation
provides.

California is in the second or third round of this; I lose track.

It will go down the dumper once again as the payback time, even with
tax credits, is measured in decades.


Fortunately, there's more to on-site solar generated electricity than
merely the time it takes to pay for the equipment. Why do you think
Toyota Prius buyers were willing to pay 36% OVER book price for them
when they were introduced? A lot of folks see it as their civic
responsibility to take action to protect the environment.

Because for the most part they can't do simple math and just look
at the milage figures. That and people get sucked into hype.

Why were people willing to pay 3 times the list price for a
S&W .44 magnum after Dirty Harry hit the theaters?

The next door neighbor was all hot to trot to buy a Prius and even
rented one for a couple of days to see how they actually performed.

He then sat down and ran the numbers.

He bought a 2001 Toyota Corrola for his work car.

Few folks are willing to **** away their own money to protect the
environment.

An then there's the independence from centrally generated utility
power that redundancy provides.

How are you going to be independant when the sun's not shining?

Oh, you are going to put in a battery storage system and oversized
collectors so your refrigerator keeps running at night and during
the rainy season.

Well great, you just pushed the payback time out another couple of
decades.

It is your money to **** away.

Get the total installed cost payback time under 4 to 5 years, then
something may happen.

With the 90% run up in petroleum prices over the last decade*, I look
for electricity, in fact nearly all goods and many services, to
reflect the rising energy costs with higher prices. With more
photovoltaic fabrication facilities poised to come on-line, there's a
chance of some price competition in solar generating equipment. So if
rising Edison bills and reduced solar equipment costs fail to make the
payback more attractive, perhaps the prospect of rolling-blackouts
this summer will. :-)

Petroleum has little to nothing to do with electricity in North America.

There is already price competition in solar generating equipment.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Morgans" wrote in message ...

"Brian" wrote

The problem with this is that it is easy to find used fuel trucks.
However, driving them off of the airport requires insurance that will
make your auto fuel cost more that than the 100LL unless you are
selling or using very large quantities of fuel. This is why most Av-
gas trucks never leave the airport.

The next best thing would be to get to know someone that has a fleet of 18
wheeler delivery trucks, and see if he will load one of the cells in his
truck with some clean premium, and bring it to you at the airport.
--
Jim in NC




Most of the mogas STCs don't even require 'premium'

wrote:

Jennifer Howland wrote:

wrote:

Jim Logajan wrote:
wrote:
LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those haulingu
the
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trucks hauling carrots from Fresno to Chicago.

Ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

Electric trains work in parts of Europe because a long haul there
is what would be called just down the road in the US and for local
transit such as the Bay Area Bart system.

Huh? Have you even done much train riding in Europe?? Today, one can take
an electric train from London to Paris and thence to Marseilles. (For
example; there are many others). You think that is equivalent to the local
trains that just serve the SF Bay Area? Dream on! The European trains can
go a good bit faster too.

Even in the USA, you can ride an all electric train froom Washington DC to
Boston MA? You don't consider that inter-city?

Heck, the Pennsylvania Railroad had electric trains between New York (later
to New Haven), Washington, Philadelphia, and Harrisburg almost 100 years
ago.

Yep, works where distances are short and population densities are high.

You declared that long haul in Europe "would be called just down the road in the
US and for local transit such as the Bay Area BART system." London to
Marseilles, one example that I cited, is a good deal greater than the local BART
system, or "down the road."



European and US East Coast distances are tiny and population densities
enourmous when take into context of the whole US.

Really? Europe distances are certainly comparable to the US, even the whole US.
And the population density of US places such as Southern Califoniia is a good
deal greater than most places in Europe that have far superior rail
coverage/service.


Compare the distance and population density from Los Angeles to Chicago
or San Diego to Maddison.

California has a bigger county than some European countries.

So does Massachusetts. So what???

Have you ever traveled from Detroit to Los Angeles on the ground?

No, but I've travelled from Philadelphia to Seattle, Denver to Virginia Beach,
etc. So what?

You compared long distance trains in Europe to the San Francisco Bay BART
system. Baloney!

Take a trip to Europe and learn something.