FAA Is Not The Sole Flight Regulatory Authority

On May 6, 10:11*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in messagenews:KqidncTlxPWQ8oLVnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@super news.com...
...



Who knows, they might enjoy seeing airplanes fly by.

My dog seems to.

Smart dog.

Cheers

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
On May 6, 10:11 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in
messagenews:KqidncTlxPWQ8oLVnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@super news.com...
...



Who knows, they might enjoy seeing airplanes fly by.

My dog seems to.

Smart dog.


Smarter than some "people" who post here...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On Mon, 5 May 2008 19:01:31 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote in
:

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
On May 6, 10:11 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in
messagenews:KqidncTlxPWQ8oLVnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@super news.com...
...



Who knows, they might enjoy seeing airplanes fly by.

My dog seems to.

Smart dog.


Smarter than some "people" who post here...

And smarter than some government agencies:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/14976065/detail.html
Court Orders Navy To Protect Whales From Sonar
NRDC Says They Are Satisfied With Ruling

POSTED: 9:47 pm PST January 3, 2008
UPDATED: 6:14 am PST January 4, 2008
LOS ANGELES -- A U.S. District Court on Thursday ordered the Navy
to adopt a series of measures to lessen the impact of sonar on
whales and other marine life during exercises off Southern
California.

The preliminary injunction said the Navy must:
Create a 12-nautical-mile no-sonar zone along the coast.
Have trained lookouts watch for marine mammals starting 60 minutes
before and then during exercises.
Shut down sonar when mammals are spotted within 2,200 yards.

District Court Judge Florence-Marie Cooper also barred the Navy
from employing sonar in the Catalina Basin, an area that is home
to what she called "a high density of marine mammals." This area
extends from Santa Catalina Island south to San Clemente Island.

"We are aware of the court's decision and we are reviewing it,"
said Lt. Cmdr. Cindy Moore, a Navy spokeswoman.

The Natural Resources Defense Council filed the lawsuit to force
the Navy to lessen the harm of its sonar exercises.

Joel Reynolds, director of the NRDC's Marine Mammal Protection
Project, said he was pleased with the decision.

"Although the Court's order recognizes the Navy's need to train
with sonar for our national defense, this is the most significant
environmental mitigation that a federal court has ever ordered the
U.S. Navy to adopt in its training with mid-frequency sonar,"
Reynolds said.

The council's lawsuit alleges the Navy's sonar interrupts foraging
and mating of whales and other marine mammals and can cause them
to beach themselves. In 2000, naval sonar contributed to 16 whales
and two dolphins being beached in the Bahamas, according to a
federal study.

According to Thursday's court order, the Navy has used or planned
to use MFA sonar during 14 large-scale exercises off the Southern
California coast between February 2007 and January of 2009.

The Navy's assessment was that approximately 170,000 marine
mammals would be exposed to sonar in these exercises, with more
than 450 instances of permanent injury to some whales, the court
order said. ...



http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/14976065/detail.html
Blue Whale Requiem
Mystery reigns as sonar tests pit military training against
beloved Southland pods

By JUDITH LEWIS
Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 5:00 pm
None of the whales seemed to have been killed by sonar. Scientists
who examined two of them found no blood in their ear canals, nor
hemorrhaging in their brains, as was the case with seven whales
that became stranded and died in the Bahamas after Navy midrange
sonar testing in 2000. The blue whales did not come ashore in
groups, like 37 pilot whales that beached in North Carolina after
midrange sonar testing there. Nor did anyone find gas bubbles in
the blue whales’ tissue, which could indicate they had surfaced
too quickly out of fear, then died from the bends. All the blue
whales died with broken bones and blunt-force injuries, meaning
they died because they were hit by ships.




http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...,5472074.story
She noted that the Navy's own study concluded that upcoming
exercises off Southern California "will cause widespread harm to
nearly 30 species of marine mammals, including five species of
endangered whales and may cause permanent injury and death."

Because scientists have chronicled panicked responses from marine
mammals as far as 40 kilometers away, Cooper said the 2,200-yard
shutdown requirement "represents a minimal imposition of the
Navy's training exercises" while preventing the harshest
sonar-related consequences.

From the posted article, the main point against this injunction seems
to be that no whales have died from sonar. But why is death considered
the only proof of harm?

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
From the posted article, the main point against this injunction seems
to be that no whales have died from sonar. But why is death considered
the only proof of harm?

Its kind of hard to get sworn testimony of lost sleep, harassment, etc.
from a whale.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
From the posted article, the main point against this injunction seems
to be that no whales have died from sonar. But why is death considered
the only proof of harm?

Its kind of hard to get sworn testimony of lost sleep, harassment, etc.
from a whale.

Iiiiii speeeeaaaaak whaaaaaaaale!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SURhza6_s

Anyway, whales are known to be notorious liars - I mean, have you ever seen
one who did not have a big tale?

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 19:01:31 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote in
:

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
On May 6, 10:11 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in
messagenews:KqidncTlxPWQ8oLVnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@super news.com...
...



Who knows, they might enjoy seeing airplanes fly by.
My dog seems to.
Smart dog.


Smarter than some "people" who post here...

And smarter than some government agencies:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/14976065/detail.html
Court Orders Navy To Protect Whales From Sonar
NRDC Says They Are Satisfied With Ruling


I'm not an environmentalist and I'm also not against harming an animal
or two if human progress requires it. BUT, I was Scuba diving off the
cost of Hawaii a few years back and there was a Destroyer off several
miles when I was down and it started pinging its sonar. This was not
comfortable at all. The sound was below my personal pain threshold but
not that of a few of the folks I was diving with and if I had been a
whale trying to get me a little something, something with a hot whale
babe it would have been quite the cock block.

So if the Navy doesn't have to use their active sonar where whales
happen to be hanging out it probably isn't a bad thing.

On May 7, 1:16*am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 19:01:31 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote in
:

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
....
On May 6, 10:11 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in
messagenews:KqidncTlxPWQ8oLVnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@super news.com...
...

Who knows, they might enjoy seeing airplanes fly by.
My dog seems to.
Smart dog.

Smarter than some "people" who post here...

And smarter than some government agencies:

* *http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/14976065/detail.html
* * Court Orders Navy To Protect Whales From Sonar
* * NRDC Says They Are Satisfied With Ruling

I'm not an environmentalist and I'm also not against harming an animal
or two if human progress requires it. BUT, I was Scuba diving off the
cost of Hawaii a few years back and there was a Destroyer off several
miles when I was down and it started pinging its sonar. This was not
comfortable at all. The sound was below my personal pain threshold but
not that of a few of the folks I was diving with


What did it sound like? I've logged over 500 dives but never heard
sonar.

Cheers

WingFlaps wrote:

I'm not an environmentalist and I'm also not against harming an animal
or two if human progress requires it. BUT, I was Scuba diving off the
cost of Hawaii a few years back and there was a Destroyer off several
miles when I was down and it started pinging its sonar. This was not
comfortable at all. The sound was below my personal pain threshold but
not that of a few of the folks I was diving with


What did it sound like? I've logged over 500 dives but never heard
sonar.

Cheers

Pretty much like it did in "Hunt For Red October". You didn't so much
hear it as feel it inside your head.

I was told by the dive master, an old Navy Man, that what we heard was
the the search not the targeting sonar. He said had it been the
targeting and aimed in our directions that we would have been deaf.

On May 7, 6:09*am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
WingFlaps wrote:
I'm not an environmentalist and I'm also not against harming an animal
or two if human progress requires it. BUT, I was Scuba diving off the
cost of Hawaii a few years back and there was a Destroyer off several
miles when I was down and it started pinging its sonar. This was not
comfortable at all. The sound was below my personal pain threshold but
not that of a few of the folks I was diving with

What did it sound like? I've logged over 500 dives but never heard
sonar.

Cheers

Pretty much like it did in "Hunt For Red October". You didn't so much
hear it as feel it inside your head.

I was told by the dive master, an old Navy Man, that what we heard was
the the search not the targeting sonar. He said had it been the
targeting and aimed in our directions that we would have been deaf.

I didn't know there was any difference between search and "targeting"
sonar. I know there is a big difference between passive and active
though.

Cheers