I give up, after many, many years!

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
gatt writes:

The ones that are ignored are different sensations and typically have to
do with equilibrium and the inner ear. Examples are somatogravic and
coriolis and inversion illusions. If your ass leaves the seat or
compresses into it, however, it's not something you ignore.

Yes, it is, because it is no more reliable than any other sensation.

If you enter a coordinated turn at constant altitude, your buttocks will tell
you that you are climbing ... but you aren't. Your inner ear will tell you
the same thing, and it will be just as wrong.

Point totally missed yet again.

That sensation tells you that you are coordinated, which is the point.

There aren't many/any RC pilots who haven't catastrophically augured an
RC plane.

Of those who have, how did they manage, without sensation? Indeed, how do
they ever manage on any flight, without sensation?

Irrelevant.

The sensation in real airplanes allows you to fly more precisely and
safer.

UAV systems are much more sophisticated than those in the
average single-engine piston airplane, and--I've not flown a UAV so I'm
guessing here--they're not doing things like steep-bank turns or
short-field approaches.

But aviation is more than single-engine piston airplanes ... much more.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Those are different sensations and you have to know the difference and
also what to reject or ignore. VFR pilots are subject to similar but
different sensations such as visual autokinesis, reversal of motion and
black hole approaches.

Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on sensations, and
selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you feel?

A blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

You can have those sensations while remaining perfectly still in normal
flight. When your ass is sliding toward the inside or outside of a
turn, or getting compressed into the seat or lifted into the lap belt,
those are not illusions.

But they may not be what you think they are, either.

It only takes a couple of hours in a real airplane to learn to interpret
what they are and what they mean.


What people are asserting here is 180 degrees different from what I read in
all the literature. You cannot fly by the seat of your pants. You can't fly
based on sensations. They are too unreliable. Conversely, you can fly
without sensations, as long as you have visual and/or instrument information.

Bull****.

That's not what the "literature" says.

Get a dictionary from someone who owns one and look up the word "context".


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

That sensation tells you that you are coordinated, which is the point.

No, it does not. Other things can produce the same sensation. You have no
way of knowing which movement produced the sensation unless you cross-check
against instruments or the world outside the window.

The sensation in real airplanes allows you to fly more precisely and
safer.

The sensation in real airplanes gives some pilots a false sense of security.

A blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

I'll ask again: Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on
sensations, and selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you feel?

It only takes a couple of hours in a real airplane to learn to interpret
what they are and what they mean.

Sometimes it takes an accident to learn that you can't trust those sensations.

That's not what the "literature" says.

That's exactly what it says. Trust your instruments, ignore your sensations.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

That's exactly what it says. Trust your instruments, ignore your
sensations.

Hey, you dumb ****, vision is a sense.

You don't know **** from shinola Anthony. You're a moron.

On Sat, 17 May 2008 19:24:38 GMT, Benjamin Dover wrote:

Hey,

*PLONK*

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

That sensation tells you that you are coordinated, which is the
point.

No, it does not. Other things can produce the same sensation. You
have no way of knowing which movement produced the sensation unless
you cross-check against instruments or the world outside the window.

The sensation in real airplanes allows you to fly more precisely and
safer.

The sensation in real airplanes gives some pilots a false sense of
security.

A blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

I'll ask again: Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only
on sensations, and selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations
you feel?

It only takes a couple of hours in a real airplane to learn to
interpret what they are and what they mean.

Sometimes it takes an accident to learn that you can't trust those
sensations.

That's not what the "literature" says.

That's exactly what it says. Trust your instruments, ignore your
sensations.


No, it doesn't.

Fjukkwit.


Bertie

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

That sensation tells you that you are coordinated, which is the point.

No, it does not. Other things can produce the same sensation. You have no
way of knowing which movement produced the sensation unless you cross-check
against instruments or the world outside the window.

What part of you must spend as much time as possible looking out the
window in VFR are you failing to understand?

The choices are NOT

a) Stare out the window
b) Stare at the panel
c) Fly blindfolded.

I take back everything I ever said about you being intelligent with
psychological issues.

You are an idiot with psychological issues.


The sensation in real airplanes allows you to fly more precisely and
safer.

The sensation in real airplanes gives some pilots a false sense of security.

Yet another blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

A blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

I'll ask again: Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on
sensations, and selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you feel?

What part of you must spend as much time as possible looking out the
window in VFR are you failing to understand?

The choices are NOT

a) Stare out the window
b) Stare at the panel
c) Fly blindfolded.

It only takes a couple of hours in a real airplane to learn to interpret
what they are and what they mean.

Sometimes it takes an accident to learn that you can't trust those sensations.

Yet another blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

That's not what the "literature" says.

That's exactly what it says. Trust your instruments, ignore your sensations.

Yet another blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

A blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

I'll ask again: Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on
sensations, and selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you
feel?

What part of you must spend as much time as possible looking out the
window in VFR are you failing to understand?

You guys are hilariously arguing right past each other. MX is arguing that
you can't fly in IMC ("with your eyes closed") by the seat of your pants --
which is 100% correct.

You, on the other hand, jrespond by arguing that of COURSE you can fly by
the seat of your pants, if only you look out the window!

God almighty, keep it up -- it's "Who's on first" all over again, and some
pretty damned good Saturday night entertainment!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On May 17, 6:37 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
A blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

I'll ask again: Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on
sensations, and selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you
feel?

What part of you must spend as much time as possible looking out the
window in VFR are you failing to understand?

You guys are hilariously arguing right past each other. MX is arguing that
you can't fly in IMC ("with your eyes closed") by the seat of your pants --
which is 100% correct.
You, on the other hand, jrespond by arguing that of COURSE you can fly by
the seat of your pants, if only you look out the window!
God almighty, keep it up -- it's "Who's on first" all over again, and some
pretty damned good Saturday night entertainment!
:-)

After doing a weird manuever, it's hard to tell if you're
in a banking turn or a spiral dive, that's how I learned.
Maybe a good pilot could use VFR as a ref, but I was
clued in by my IAS needle going into yellow.

I was a fairly good gymnast, so my orientational
skills are likely a bit better than average.
Ken

On May 18, 1:59*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On May 17, 6:37 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:





A blazingly stupid comment that shows you know nothing about real
flight.

I'll ask again: Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on
sensations, and selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you
feel?

What part of you must spend as much time as possible looking out the
window in VFR are you failing to understand?

You guys are hilariously arguing right past each other. * MX is arguing that
you can't fly in IMC ("with your eyes closed") by the seat of your pants --
which is 100% correct.
You, on the other hand, jrespond by arguing that of COURSE you can fly by
the seat of your pants, if only you look out the window!
God almighty, keep it up -- it's "Who's on first" all over again, and some
pretty damned good Saturday night entertainment!
:-)

After doing a weird manuever, it's hard to tell if you're
in a banking turn or a spiral dive, that's how I learned.
Maybe a good pilot could use VFR as a ref, but I was
clued in by my IAS needle going into yellow.


BS! In VFR the position of the horizon tells you the difference. In
many planes there is no AH 'cos you don't need it for VFR!
The engine noise also tells you if you are descending or climging.

Cheers

On May 17, 8:33 pm, More_Flaps wrote:
On May 18, 1:59 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
....
After doing a weird manuever, it's hard to tell if you're
in a banking turn or a spiral dive, that's how I learned.
Maybe a good pilot could use VFR as a ref, but I was
clued in by my IAS needle going into yellow.

BS! In VFR the position of the horizon tells you the difference. In
many planes there is no AH 'cos you don't need it for VFR!
The engine noise also tells you if you are descending or climging.
Cheers

What you say is true, for a good experienced pilot,
who have flown disorientation exersizes.
But I'll provide this challenge, block off the speedometer
in your car and I'll bet you'll have a problem driving.
What happens to me is I drift up to 80 MPH, then
go "holy poop".
Ken