Outside reference in IMC

On Wed, 21 May 2008 15:58:07 -0700 (PDT), Tina
wrote:

Statement is still true, isn't it? VFR minima are different in
uncontrolled airspace, and since IMC is pretty much defined as weather
conditions in which VFR may not be flown, yada yada yada. Or maybe
I'm missing something too.

I will confess I can't remember when we were last in uncontrolled
airspace!

Same here, but that's how I remember it!

Even in "G", you still need 1 mile, clear of clouds (day), to be
legal.

You have to open the IFR plan before entering controlled space, but
you can't go less than 1 and C of C, which would be "IMC" in G.

So, the real answer is, you can't fly in IMC "G", but you can fly in
less than "normal" VFR, since "G" has looser requirements.

On May 21, 3:27*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

The FAA wants you to keep a certain distance from clouds because under VFR you
are maintaining visual separation, and you cannot see what might be inside
those clouds. *If you get to close, and another aircraft comes out of the
cloud, you may not have time to react safely.

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANYBODY HOME?????????????????

DID YOU READ MY POST????????????????????

I was on an IFR clearance.

What a maroon!

Do you see the irony in this?

YES! You answered to your name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Wed, 21 May 2008 17:45:42 -0600, HARRY POTTER
wrote:



I realize that. But what I don't understand, is that if the FAA regards
flying in class G without a clearance unsafe, then why do they have
specific language that allows IFR flights in uncontrolled airspace...

btw, here is a link to the FAA action:

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3935.PDF

He departed immediately after another aircraft?

HARRY POTTER wrote in
:

Benjamin Dover wrote:

HARRY POTTER wrote in
:

B A R R Y wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:30:20 -0400, "Bob F."
wrote:

Extra credit points! The statement below is incomplete (hint:
qualification
is missing). There are lots of places in US airspace where you could
be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are
they?

Class G space.

Thats what I always thought, until I saw an FAA enforcement letter
where they suspended a pilot for launching intoclass G without a
clearance. IIRC, he was sitting on the ground awaiting his release
from ATC, got tired of waiting, and just took off. No one along the
line doubts he did indeed stay inside uncontrolled airspace, but they
still violated him.


§ 91.13 - Careless or reckless operation. The FAA's gotcha reg.

I realize that. But what I don't understand, is that if the FAA regards
flying in class G without a clearance unsafe, then why do they have
specific language that allows IFR flights in uncontrolled airspace...

btw, here is a link to the FAA action:

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3935.PDF


ATC can't clear you in airspace they don't control. Had a clearance been
issued, it would have specified where to enter controlled airspace and in
what time window. .

In the reference you cite, they did not penalize the pilot for flying in
IMC under IFR in class G airspace. He was nailed because he flew VFR
(which he stated he was doing to another pilot) in weather which was,
according to other witnesses, IMC. That was the careless and reckless 91.13
violation.

From the very cite you provided: With regard to respondent's assertion
that, "[i]f anytime an aircraft enters clouds in uncontrolled airspace it
is careless without a clearance then the FAR's should be changed," we note
that it would be neither wise nor possible for the FAA to attempt to
specifically prohibit every form of conduct that it considered careless.

" wrote in
:

On May 21, 3:27*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

The FAA wants you to keep a certain distance from clouds because
under VFR
you
are maintaining visual separation, and you cannot see what might be
inside

those clouds. *If you get to close, and another aircraft comes out of
th
e
cloud, you may not have time to react safely.

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANYBODY HOME?????????????????

DID YOU READ MY POST????????????????????

I was on an IFR clearance.

What a maroon!

Do you see the irony in this?

YES! You answered to your name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anthony neither understands the value of an instrument instructor who isn't
afraid to touch the clouds nor does he understand the rules and requlations
which apply to both IFR and VFR flight. He may read the FARs, but he lacks
the mental capacity to comprehend them.

What's even more amusing is that not only didn't he understand that you
were on an IFR clearance, but he also fails to understand that it is
possible to legally travel 50' from a cloud while VFR.

He must take some perverse pleasure in continously demonstrating his abject
lack of understanding to the world.

On May 21, 4:51*pm, Buster Hymen wrote:

*Under VFR flight rules, there is a way you can legally
and safely fly 50' from a cloud (above, below, or laterally). You, Anthony,
obviously don't know how. *But you won't admit that you don't and,
instead, demonstrating that you don't know **** from shinola, incompetently
conclude it can't be done. *Wrong again, fjukktard. *Wrong again.

Let me give him a hint.

(B)usy airspace you can sidle up to a cloud up close and personal :-)

(G)round, while not as much space 'tween the cumulogranite and white
fluffy kind, it really can be done. NOT my type of flying, will leave
those to the tree topper flyers.

" wrote in
:

On May 21, 4:51*pm, Buster Hymen wrote:

*Under VFR flight rules, there is a way you can legally
and safely fly 50' from a cloud (above, below, or laterally). You,
Anthony
,
obviously don't know how. *But you won't admit that you don't and,
instead, demonstrating that you don't know **** from shinola,
incompetentl
y
conclude it can't be done. *Wrong again, fjukktard. *Wrong again.

Let me give him a hint.

(B)usy airspace you can sidle up to a cloud up close and personal :-)

(G)round, while not as much space 'tween the cumulogranite and white
fluffy kind, it really can be done. NOT my type of flying, will leave
those to the tree topper flyers.



You can also ask your friends in ATC for a special favor. If you ask
nicely, they'll probably accomodate you.

Buster Hymen writes:

I'll say it again. Under VFR flight rules, there is a way you can legally
and safely fly 50' from a cloud (above, below, or laterally).

There is a way to do anything you want while flying (FAR 91.3). However, that
doesn't mean that you are usually in a position to legally do so.

writes:

On May 21, 3:27*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

What a maroon!

Do you see the irony in this?

YES! You answered to your name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No. In the Warner Bros. cartoons that gave rise to this expression, Bugs
Bunny would say "What a maroon!" in an attempt to call someone else stupid,
not realizing that "maroon" is a mispronunciation of "moron." Thus, he
demonstrated that he was stupid by trying to call someone else stupid.

Now do you see the irony?

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
Buster Hymen writes:

I'll say it again. Under VFR flight rules, there is a way you can
legally and safely fly 50' from a cloud (above, below, or laterally).

There is a way to do anything you want while flying (FAR 91.3).
However, that doesn't mean that you are usually in a position to
legally do so.


Wrong again, fjukktard.

You don't need to invoke emergency authority under 91.3 to legally and
safely fly 50' from a cloud while VFR.

Anthony, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're pathetic
attempts to slither out of the mistake you've made here continue to display
to everyone reading this forum that you don't know **** from shinola.