Aircraft that never lived up to their promise

"Peter Stickney"
Now, that's most patently untrue. The fact is, in the late 1950s,
early 1960s, Canada had jumped onto the Nuke Bandwagon more deeply
than any other NATO country, including the U.S.. The CF-104s were
built solely as Nuke Bombers.

I have never read so much B.S. about Canada's nuclear roll. The
Diefenbaker government had to be dragged into the accepting nuclear weapons!
The F-104 was designed as a fast high altitude interceptor for the USAF.
They sold it as an inexpensive, so to speak, aircraft to several Allied
countries. The West Germans used them in a fighter roll where they became
known as the "Widow Maker" because of several accidents. The RCAF used it as
a strike-recon low level nuclear tactical bomber. I did the acceptance
checks on these aircraft when they were delivered to 3(F)Wing in Zweibruken,
Germany. They were brought over in C130 Hercs where they were reassembled
on arrival. I guess they didn't want to risk flying them over as they did
earlier with the Sabres and CF-100's. Do some web searching and get your
facts straight! The French and the British did develop independent nuclear
programs but the French wanted control of any nuclear weapons on French soil
and the U.S.A. would not do this.

"Ed Majden"
I have never read so much B.S. about Canada's nuclear roll. The
Diefenbaker government had to be dragged into the accepting nuclear
weapons!
The F-104 was designed as a fast high altitude interceptor for the USAF.
They sold it as an inexpensive, so to speak, aircraft to several Allied
countries. The West Germans used them in a fighter roll where they became
known as the "Widow Maker" because of several accidents. The RCAF used it
as
a strike-recon low level nuclear tactical bomber. I did the acceptance
checks on these aircraft when they were delivered to 3(F)Wing in
Zweibruken,
Germany. They were brought over in C130 Hercs where they were reassembled
on arrival. I guess they didn't want to risk flying them over as they did
earlier with the Sabres and CF-100's. Do some web searching and get your
facts straight! The French and the British did develop independent
nuclear
programs but the French wanted control of any nuclear weapons on French
soil
and the U.S.A. would not do this.

Should have added, the Canadian version of the F-104 was built under
licence at Canadaire Ltd in Montreal and was designated as the CF-104.
Early versions of the F-104 had a downward ejection seat as they were
concerned about clearing the high tail. Not a good idea for the role Canada
used the CF-104 for so an upward ejection seat was used. Accidents also
often happen during take-off. Not a good idea for downward ejection at this
time. Hard on the old butt! ;-)

"Ed Majden" wrote in message
news:xyAzb.558017$9l5.502070@pd7tw2no...
|
| "Peter Stickney"
| Now, that's most patently untrue. The fact is, in the late 1950s,
| early 1960s, Canada had jumped onto the Nuke Bandwagon more deeply
| than any other NATO country, including the U.S.. The CF-104s were
| built solely as Nuke Bombers.
|
| I have never read so much B.S. about Canada's nuclear roll. The
| Diefenbaker government had to be dragged into the accepting nuclear
weapons!

Ever read a book by John Clearwater titled "Canadian Nuclear Weapons:
The Untold Story"? It includes some information about the efforts the
Pearson government to sign up for the use of US nuclear weapons.

"Brett" |
Ever read a book by John Clearwater titled "Canadian Nuclear Weapons:
The Untold Story"? It includes some information about the efforts the
Pearson government to sign up for the use of US nuclear weapons.

Never read this book. Deif lost an election over his fence sitting and
reluctance to accept nuclear weapons. I lived through this era having
enlisted in the RCAF in 1958. Started out on the Cf-100, went to Europe on
the CF-104's, spent two tours on Bomarcs and finished off on CF101's as a
ground crew tech. We were anxiously waiting for the Arrow, but alas and
sadly, the program was cancelled. This was known as "Black Friday". Saw
the Arrow do a couple of over flights over the base I was on along with the
B47 test bed with the Iroquois engine strapped on the rear.

"Ed Majden" wrote:
| "Brett" |
| Ever read a book by John Clearwater titled "Canadian Nuclear
Weapons:
| The Untold Story"? It includes some information about the efforts
the
| Pearson government to sign up for the use of US nuclear weapons.
|
| Never read this book. Deif lost an election over his fence
sitting and
| reluctance to accept nuclear weapons.

And Pearson's Liberals won by "embracing" the idea - nice switch by
them, they were "anti" when Diefenbaker first started down the path and
it was Pearson's government that signed the agreements.

| I lived through this era having
| enlisted in the RCAF in 1958.

Try reading the book it basically agrees with Peter Stickney's comment
about Canada and the "Nuke Bandwagon".

| Started out on the Cf-100, went to Europe on
| the CF-104's, spent two tours on Bomarcs and finished off on CF101's
as a
| ground crew tech. We were anxiously waiting for the Arrow, but alas
and
| sadly, the program was cancelled. This was known as "Black Friday".

You were "anxiously waiting for the Arrow", you probably didn't have a
year of service in when it was cancelled in Feburary 1959.

| Saw
| the Arrow do a couple of over flights over the base I was on along
with the
| B47 test bed with the Iroquois engine strapped on the rear.

"Brett"
You were "anxiously waiting for the Arrow", you probably didn't have a
year of service in when it was cancelled in Feburary 1959.

Had just completed my various trades courses and arrived at my first ops
station on CF-100's. We were waiting for the CF-105 courses to start when
the whole thing went down the drain!

"Brett" wrote in message
...

And Pearson's Liberals won by "embracing" the idea - nice switch by
them, they were "anti" when Diefenbaker first started down the path and
it was Pearson's government that signed the agreements.

This was the classic Canadian political wedge issue, and Pearson was able
to cleave the Conservative constituency with it and set a course that
would allow the Liberals to form four governments in succession (albeit
with two minorities).

My father got in severe ca-ca over this. Douglas Harkness, then MND, went
to a mess dinner at H.M.C.S. Carelton, where my dad was the naval
reserve's Int and PR officer. During dinner Harkness spoke against Dief's
(irrational) policy, revealing the break in cabinet solidarity. My father
promptly wrote a press release about MND's remarks and it landed him in
hot water; he was asked not to parade. Dief lost the election that
resulted from the loss of confidence in the Conservative government, and
my father was asked back. (I am sure my father voted neither Conservative
nor Liberal in that election.)

Try reading the book it basically agrees with Peter Stickney's comment
about Canada and the "Nuke Bandwagon".

We did not fully dismount from the "Nuke Bandwagon" until about 1993 when
we ceased teaching nuclear fire planning on the Artillery Staff Duties
Course and at the Canadian Land Force Command and Staff College.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)