russia vs. japan in 1941 [WAS: 50% of NAZI oil..]

"Actual Oxyclean User" wrote in message . net...

snip

You need to be a little more specific about bravery when you talk about the
Russians.

Indeed.

Much of their bravery came at the muzzle of an NKVD rifle.

Actually Mark, only a tiny bit of it came from NKVD rifles, since
there was very little NKVD to go around. There was no NKVD when
Zhukov trounded the Japanese. There was no NKVD when Col.
Polosukhin's 32nd Rifle Division gutted 40th Panzercorps at Borodino.
There was no NKVD when Col. Katukov's 4th Tank Bde sliced and diced
4th Panzer Division on the approach to Tula. further examples can be
supplied.

So there's another one of your spiteful lies exposed.

The Moscow panic was brutally surpressed by the NKVD.

Apparently, Mark would prefer it if it had spread. What alternative
was there?

If you didn't work long hard hours in those factories, you could be shot.

Apparently, Mark would prefer it if those factories had produced less.
What alternative was there?

NKVD units were generally interspersed with regular units.

Yeah, around one battalion per Front. That works out to about 1% of
the force.

Anyone not showing sufficient enthusiasm
for marching into a Nazi machine gun nest would be shot in the back.

Yet another spiteful lie. No denying that it happened occasionally,
but it was far from "anyone".

The end of the war did not bring relief

Sure it did. No Germans killing people by the tens of millions, after
all.

but did bring into being the gulag system of slave labor.

Then there is the issue of the Russians that welcomed the Nazis hoping to
get rid of the Communists. Ukranians, although not Russians, were often

A minority were. But from the vast majority, the Germans got nothing
but hatred and opposition. Hence the unsustainable casualties the
Germans suffered, from the very start of the war.

quite happy to see the Germans,

Oh yeah, I remember the staged newsreels of people lined up neatly in
front of villages and then running simultaneously towards German tanks
to greet them. I don't buy anything so hokey, but it's no suprise
that you do.

The reality is that the Germans found the most bitter, determined
resistance they had run into up to that point in the war when they
attacked the USSR.

especially remembering that Stalin's famine
caused about 4 million of them to die.

While Chechans were storming the Reichstag, their families back home were
being deported to Siberia.

And where were Japanese-Americans when Lt. Daniel Inoue was wounded in
the action that got him a Distinguished Service Cross?

Stuart Wilkes

"Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message
om...
"Actual Oxyclean User" wrote in message
. net...

snip

You need to be a little more specific about bravery when you talk about
the
Russians.

Indeed.

Much of their bravery came at the muzzle of an NKVD rifle.

Actually Mark, only a tiny bit of it came from NKVD rifles, since
there was very little NKVD to go around.

But enough to instill fear...which was the main objective anyway.

There was no NKVD when
Zhukov trounded the Japanese.

And there was no NKVD when millions of Russians ran as fast as their little
feet could carry them in front of the advancing Barbarossa frat house party.

There was no NKVD when Col.
Polosukhin's 32nd Rifle Division gutted 40th Panzercorps at Borodino.
There was no NKVD when Col. Katukov's 4th Tank Bde sliced and diced
4th Panzer Division on the approach to Tula. further examples can be
supplied.

So there's another one of your spiteful lies exposed.

The Moscow panic was brutally surpressed by the NKVD.

Apparently, Mark would prefer it if it had spread. What alternative
was there?


Communication? Apparently this is an abstract concept for Russians. Still
is.

If you didn't work long hard hours in those factories, you could be
shot.

Apparently, Mark would prefer it if those factories had produced less.
What alternative was there?


In the US we didn't seem to have a problem. We didn't trump up phoney
charges to get free slave labor. Not even interned Japanese were subjected
to forced labor. The worst the German POWs had it was working in vegetable
gardens to grow their own food. I guess that's why so many German POWs
didn't want to be repatriated. Willy Von Braun didn't think it was so bad
here.

NKVD units were generally interspersed with regular units.

Yeah, around one battalion per Front. That works out to about 1% of
the force.

Anyone not showing sufficient enthusiasm
for marching into a Nazi machine gun nest would be shot in the back.

Yet another spiteful lie. No denying that it happened occasionally,
but it was far from "anyone".


But no such "NKVD" units accompanied American soldiers, not even 1%.

The end of the war did not bring relief

Sure it did. No Germans killing people by the tens of millions, after
all.


And the Soviets simply picked up where the Nazis left off.

but did bring into being the gulag system of slave labor.

Then there is the issue of the Russians that welcomed the Nazis hoping
to
get rid of the Communists. Ukranians, although not Russians, were often

A minority were. But from the vast majority, the Germans got nothing
but hatred and opposition. Hence the unsustainable casualties the
Germans suffered, from the very start of the war.


Nyet. Byelorussians, Ukranians and Balts were quite happy to see the Nazis
march into their towns...as were many Russians. The problem arose in the
fact that there were two competing philosophies in the German military...one
that wanted to "allie" with the conquered and the hardliners who took a more
racist approach. The hardliners won out. You know this very well Stuey so
quit the smoke screen.

quite happy to see the Germans,

Oh yeah, I remember the staged newsreels of people lined up neatly in
front of villages and then running simultaneously towards German tanks
to greet them. I don't buy anything so hokey, but it's no suprise
that you do.


Yes, of course. You were there and interviewed every person. Opinion, not
fact. This is why nobody should believe any of your "history". You are
incapable of separating your personal bias from historical fact.

The reality is that the Germans found the most bitter, determined
resistance they had run into up to that point in the war when they
attacked the USSR.


No. When the Germans attacked the USSR, they ran and surrendered by the
millions. This is historical fact. Determined resitance did not happen until
Stalingrad....and only because Stalin decided to make a meat grinder out of
it i.e. the Soviets sent there to fight had no choice in the matter.

especially remembering that Stalin's famine
caused about 4 million of them to die.

While Chechans were storming the Reichstag, their families back home
were
being deported to Siberia.

And where were Japanese-Americans when Lt. Daniel Inoue was wounded in
the action that got him a Distinguished Service Cross?


They were be given food, clothing and shelter and protective custody. How
many of those Japanese-Americans returned to Japan after the war?
Another Stuey smoke screen where you try to cast one isolated incident as
general policy. This sounds like Stuey hipocrisy to me. According to you,
the Soviets were justified in committing mass murder during the Moscow panic
but the US was wrong to gather together potential saboteurs. This double
standard is nothing new for you.

Stuart Wilkes, apologist for mass murder.

"Actual Oxyclean User" wrote in message . net...
"Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message
om...
"Actual Oxyclean User" wrote in message
. net...

snip

You need to be a little more specific about bravery when you talk about
the Russians.

Indeed.

Much of their bravery came at the muzzle of an NKVD rifle.

Actually Mark, only a tiny bit of it came from NKVD rifles, since
there was very little NKVD to go around.

But enough to instill fear...which was the main objective anyway.

There was no NKVD when
Zhukov trounded the Japanese.

And there was no NKVD when millions of Russians ran as fast as their little
feet could carry them in front of the advancing Barbarossa frat house party.

That's because it was a war of racial extermination, Mark. It's
generally smart to run away from one of those if you can.

There was no NKVD when Col.
Polosukhin's 32nd Rifle Division gutted 40th Panzercorps at Borodino.
There was no NKVD when Col. Katukov's 4th Tank Bde sliced and diced
4th Panzer Division on the approach to Tula. further examples can be
supplied.

So there's another one of your spiteful lies exposed.

The Moscow panic was brutally surpressed by the NKVD.

Apparently, Mark would prefer it if it had spread. What alternative
was there?


Communication?

Communicate what, with a war of racial extermination on the way?

Apparently this is an abstract concept for Russians. Still is.

If you didn't work long hard hours in those factories, you could be
shot.

Apparently, Mark would prefer it if those factories had produced less.
What alternative was there?


In the US we didn't seem to have a problem.

We weren't being subjected to a war of racial extermination. There
was no Wehrmacht on our territory killing tens of millions of us and
occupying the most extensively-developed part of our country.

We didn't trump up phoney
charges to get free slave labor. Not even interned Japanese were subjected
to forced labor. The worst the German POWs had it was working in vegetable
gardens to grow their own food. I guess that's why so many German POWs
didn't want to be repatriated. Willy Von Braun didn't think it was so bad
here.

NKVD units were generally interspersed with regular units.

Yeah, around one battalion per Front. That works out to about 1% of
the force.

Anyone not showing sufficient enthusiasm
for marching into a Nazi machine gun nest would be shot in the back.

Yet another spiteful lie. No denying that it happened occasionally,
but it was far from "anyone".

But no such "NKVD" units accompanied American soldiers, not even 1%.

We weren't being subjected to a war of racial extermination. There
was no Wehrmacht on our territory killing tens of millions of us.

The end of the war did not bring relief

Sure it did. No Germans killing people by the tens of millions, after
all.

And the Soviets simply picked up where the Nazis left off.

Prove it.

but did bring into being the gulag system of slave labor.

Then there is the issue of the Russians that welcomed the Nazis hoping
to
get rid of the Communists. Ukranians, although not Russians, were often

A minority were. But from the vast majority, the Germans got nothing
but hatred and opposition. Hence the unsustainable casualties the
Germans suffered, from the very start of the war.


Nyet. Byelorussians, Ukranians and Balts were quite happy to see the Nazis
march into their towns...as were many Russians.

Said Dr. Goebbels, and his intellectual heirs down to the present day.
A group that includes you.

The problem arose in the
fact that there were two competing philosophies in the German military...one
that wanted to "allie" with the conquered and the hardliners who took a more
racist approach.

Except that the guy at the top, whose opinion was the only one that
counted on the matter, wanted all the
"JewBolshevikRiddenSubhumanSlavs" gone.

The hardliners won out.

The other sort on this question counted for nothing.

You know this very well Stuey so quit the smoke screen.

Quel smokescreen?

quite happy to see the Germans,

Oh yeah, I remember the staged newsreels of people lined up neatly in
front of villages and then running simultaneously towards German tanks
to greet them. I don't buy anything so hokey, but it's no suprise
that you do.


Yes, of course. You were there and interviewed every person. Opinion, not
fact.

A better-grounded opinion than yours.

This is why nobody should believe any of your "history". You are
incapable of separating your personal bias from historical fact.

Sez the source of repeated howling errors and spiteful lies.

The reality is that the Germans found the most bitter, determined
resistance they had run into up to that point in the war when they
attacked the USSR.


No.

Okay Mark, when had they run into fiercer and more determined
resistance up to that point in the war?

When the Germans attacked the USSR, they ran and surrendered by the
millions. This is historical fact.

And where didn't this happen wherever the Germas attacked, up to that
point in the war?

Determined resitance did not happen until Stalingrad

The Germans themselves didn't think so.

....and only because Stalin decided to make a meat grinder out of
it i.e. the Soviets sent there to fight had no choice in the matter.

Actually, Zhukov set that up, at Yelnia, in August 1941. Stopped Army
Group center in its tracks, and forced the Germans into a two-Corps
withdrawl. First time they had had to do one of those to that point
in the war.

especially remembering that Stalin's famine
caused about 4 million of them to die.

While Chechans were storming the Reichstag, their families back home
were being deported to Siberia.

And where were Japanese-Americans when Lt. Daniel Inoue was wounded in
the action that got him a Distinguished Service Cross?


They were be given food, clothing and shelter and protective custody. How
many of those Japanese-Americans returned to Japan after the war?
Another Stuey smoke screen where you try to cast one isolated incident as
general policy.

How much Japanese-American collaboration with Imperial Japan was
there?

This sounds like Stuey hipocrisy to me.

Sez the spiteful liar.

According to you,
the Soviets were justified in committing mass murder during the Moscow panic

Would you have preferred it to have gone on?

but the US was wrong to gather together potential saboteurs.

How many sabotage plots were found among Japanese-Americans Mark?

This double standard is nothing new for you.

Sez the spiteful liar who wanted to nuke a city of two million,
99.999% of whom never attacked the US, and the remainder who did were
former US proteges.

k.net

"I hope like hell the US does use the nuclear option. It sounds like
they're
going to get us into another Viet Nam...screw this long engagement
crap. It
will just get more Americans killed. Fry the *******s.

Let Kabul be the example."

Stuart Wilkes