![]() |
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Jun 19, 2:33*am, Ian wrote:
That would be a gross misuse - an abuse - of the MAYDAY call. You are NOT supposed to use it on the off chance that something might go wrong later. You're in a remote area, you're high enough to make a radio call, but don't know how much lower you can be and still communicate, so you want to notify *someone* of your predicament. So you tune 121.5 and say...???? -Tom |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
5Z wrote:
You're in a remote area, you're high enough to make a radio call, but don't know how much lower you can be and still communicate, so you want to notify *someone* of your predicament. So you tune 121.5 and say...???? PAN PAN in Europe, which would have the desired effect. I've heard this is not fully recognised in the US - true or not? |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
According to the FAA's 2008 Aeronautical Information Manual Chapter 6
Section 3, Mayday is to be used for Distress situations, and Pan-Pan is to be used for Urgency situations: See http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...6/aim0603.html for further details. -John Chris Reed wrote: PAN PAN in Europe, which would have the desired effect. I've heard this is not fully recognised in the US - true or not? |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
jcarlyle wrote:
According to the FAA's 2008 Aeronautical Information Manual Chapter 6 Section 3, Mayday is to be used for Distress situations, and Pan-Pan is to be used for Urgency situations: See http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...6/aim0603.html for further details. -John Chris Reed wrote: PAN PAN in Europe, which would have the desired effect. I've heard this is not fully recognised in the US - true or not? Thanks for the link...this is what I was looking for to help answer the question... Scott |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Hi Tom
This is RAS - so the advice is only guaranteed to be worth every cent you pay, but here is my opinion for what it is worth. I believe the adage is Aviate, navigate, communicate (My corollary is - and know the consequences.) Having aviated into a hazardous situation - however we got there, the thing to do is to fly the aeroplane, to as safe a location as possible under the circumstances (minimise the risk of damage and injury), and communicate the situation (location and risk of damage or injury) as clearly as possible. Part of mitigating risk to yourself and others is to ensure the people at your home airfield and or SAR know where you are, and what your intentions are. The cost and risks associated with a large scale search when there is limited information available is much higher. So - You're in a remote area, you're high enough to make a radio call, but don't know how much lower you can be and still communicate, so you want to notify *someone* of your predicament. So you tune 121.5 and say...???? My call is - PAN PAN "... I have the following situation." But my understanding is that the controllers / SAR / contest directors would like to know the situation whatever you call it- as long as you explain the situation. If you mistakenly use "Mayday", the person you are talking to "should" ask if you really want to declare an emergency. Then remember to tell the same people once you are down what the new (hopefully - "no problem") situation is. Even in remote areas you may be able to relay via an airliner - who should be listening for your call if you made a PAN announcement. If they don't hear from you cancelling the PAN (Possible Assistance Needed )call all the expensive stuff will start on the assumption that it is no longer a possible, but an actual "assistance needed" situation - but you won't be on the hook for futile expenses. I you cry wolf - You will, of course, aggravate a lot of people you might really want on your side in a real emergency. And they will bill you. Communicating anything can save a lot of aggravation - Consider the contest pilot who got too busy to call landing out in the middle of nowhere on a contest day that developed massive storm fronts. Last contact on the radio was around two hours before eventual landing. That is a lot of ground for a modern 18m ship. On the ground , he had no cell reception, deserted farmhouses and too little radio range (flat battery) to reach anyone. Having lost track of exactly where he was in the excitement he was unaware/unsure of how to reach the nearest town which was 13km away. Out of options and ideas he slept uncomfortably in the cockpit while the storm blew itself out - which is more than can be said for a lot of others who spent much of the night up and arranging a search at dawn. Then seven aircraft started a grid search, with most burning two hours of tach time by the time the aircraft was located, and they got back home. Then the issue of cost comes up... The take away from that one for me was - have decent battery endurance available, and try to have two cellular phones so that you may be able to get alternative comms working. The field we found him in had reasonable cellular coverage by the alternative network, not his service provider. Could/should have been a simple retrieve. Sometimes abuse is preferable to non-use. 5Z wrote: On Jun 19, 2:33 am, Ian wrote: That would be a gross misuse - an abuse - of the MAYDAY call. You are NOT supposed to use it on the off chance that something might go wrong later. You're in a remote area, you're high enough to make a radio call, but don't know how much lower you can be and still communicate, so you want to notify *someone* of your predicament. So you tune 121.5 and say...???? -Tom |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On 19 Jun, 17:58, Bruce wrote:
If they don't hear from you cancelling the PAN (Possible Assistance Needed )call all the expensive stuff will start on the assumption that it is no longer a possible, but an actual "assistance needed" situation - but you won't be on the hook for futile expenses. That's what will happen if you make a pan-pan call before descending to a height where you can't cancel it. Ian |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Hi Ian
Agree - best option is to just tell people what you are doing. No need to call pan or mayday - just give them the facts. Then at least they know where to start looking if you don't call in. In this instance I think the pilot had reason to believe he might not make a safe landing. In which case PAN is justified. As I said, just remember the consequences part - including costs of search and rescue. And that there is risk to those who go searching too. Bruce Ian wrote: On 19 Jun, 17:58, Bruce wrote: If they don't hear from you cancelling the PAN (Possible Assistance Needed )call all the expensive stuff will start on the assumption that it is no longer a possible, but an actual "assistance needed" situation - but you won't be on the hook for futile expenses. That's what will happen if you make a pan-pan call before descending to a height where you can't cancel it. Ian |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
5Z wrote:
On Jun 19, 2:33 am, Ian wrote: That would be a gross misuse - an abuse - of the MAYDAY call. You are NOT supposed to use it on the off chance that something might go wrong later. You're in a remote area, you're high enough to make a radio call, but don't know how much lower you can be and still communicate, so you want to notify *someone* of your predicament. So you tune 121.5 and say...???? -Tom "Any station, any station, Glider 1234 Alpha (use your ship's callsign), I have a situation...I'm at (lat/Long, near town X, over the shopping mall,, etc.) describe problem and ask if they can assist in a specific manner (call flight service, call so and so on a cellphone, etc.)" Chances are that even if you are on or near the ground, someone will hear you on 121.5. Airliners are required (If I recall) to monitor while in flight. From 5 miles up they should have a pretty good range. Scott |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On 19 Jun, 15:48, 5Z wrote:
On Jun 19, 2:33 am, Ian wrote: That would be a gross misuse - an abuse - of the MAYDAY call. You are NOT supposed to use it on the off chance that something might go wrong later. You're in a remote area, you're high enough to make a radio call, but don't know how much lower you can be and still communicate, so you want to notify *someone* of your predicament. So you tune 121.5 and say...???? An interesting question, particularly if you can't confirm that you're OK (or not) after landing. However, since you are not in any immediate danger, neither mayday nor pan-pan would be appropriate. On the whole you are probably best to keep quiet and activate your emergency locator if necessary. Ian |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Ian wrote:
...since you are not in any immediate danger, neither mayday nor pan-pan would be appropriate. On the whole you are probably best to keep quiet and activate your emergency locator if necessary. This is some of the worst advice I've ever heard on this or any other aviation list. Let's encourage people to know their options, to "aviate, navigate, and communicate." Being quiet about the situation while counting on your emergency locator to activate, or your post-landing ability to activate it, is not recommended. Any difference of opinion regarding radio terminology is trivial compared to the decision to use the radio to communicate your circumstances in the first place, and in a timely manner. Jack |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Sparrowhawk 300 km in Utah | Mike the Strike | Soaring | 8 | May 6th 07 03:33 AM |
MAYDAY in the Everglades | Marty from Sunny Florida | Owning | 46 | May 16th 05 10:01 PM |
Utah Bush Flying | O-Usagi | Piloting | 3 | March 22nd 04 04:24 PM |
Region 9 - Parowan Utah | Dirk Elber | Soaring | 0 | February 9th 04 12:54 AM |
St George Utah | Casey Wilson | Piloting | 6 | August 9th 03 04:17 AM |