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In rec.aviation.piloting Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:55?am, wrote: In rec.aviation.piloting Le Chaud Lapin wrote: The most expensive thing on your list of wonders is at least 3 orders of magnitude less in price than an airplane ever could be. But at least it shows that, if someone builds something that consumers will want, before the consumers know what it is, the consumers will still want it. In case of low-cost PAV, it is already known that the consumers will want it. No, that is not known, and to become a commondity the price has to get down to the level of a microwave oven, which is never going to happen. It would be hard, indeed, to bring cost of PAV too few hundred US dollars. But many people would be willing to pay the same for a PAV as they would for their automobile. A lot of people would buy an airplane if they could buy a brand new one for $15k to $30K no matter whether it had electronic trickery in it or not, but there is no way to get the price that low unless the number of pilots increases by over two orders of magnitude and even then it would be difficult to achieve. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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On Jun 22, 12:35 pm, wrote:
A lot of people would buy an airplane if they could buy a brand new one for $15k to $30K no matter whether it had electronic trickery in it or not, but there is no way to get the price that low unless the number of pilots increases by over two orders of magnitude and even then it would be difficult to achieve. There is a way, but it involves two things: Simplicity and personal responsibility. Simplicity of construction so that there isn't a bunch of stuff that's not necessary to achieve safe flight, and personal responsibility that accepts that there's personal risk in flying and holds the manufacturer only to safe construction and performance parameters, so he's not required to charge so much more for an airplane than it's really worth just so that he can buy huge amounts of insurance to protect himself from greedy lawyers and stupid juries and incompetent pilots who blame everyone else for their own mistakes. There really isn't much to a basic airplane like a Citabria or Cessna 150. Much of its value is tied up in the engine and instruments, both necessary, and radios, some of which are not all that necessary. The manufacturers of those things also have to charge far more than the inherent value of these items because they get sued, too . The mechanic has to buy lots of insurance, and so does the airport operator and the fuel provider and so on. Costs get way beyond reason. Until society gets fed up enough to do something concrete about it, nothing will change, even with an "affordable PAV" which itself would make things even worse just by allowing even more incompetent people into the air. Just look at the deaths of people using jet-skis or Quads and how their manufacturers have to insure themselves. If we can buy a brand-new automobile, a vehicle that is far more complex than a Cessna 150, for around $15K, we should be able to buy the much simpler airplane for the same price. But we can't because airplanes kill the unwary much more readily and their owners or passengers or the survivors of the owners are qick to capitalize on the losses. Technology is not the answer to lowering costs; simplicity and responsibility are. Dan |
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On Jun 22, 3:55 pm, wrote:
And since it is doubtfull you could build an airplane with automated machinery that inputs sheet steel, stamps out parts, and spot welds them together, airplanes will likely always be labor intensive to build. I dunno. When I learned to fly in the 1970s I asked the Cessna dealer how much a new 172 cost. "Way too much," he said. "$21,000." It WAS a lot, considering that I was making maybe $14000 a year, so it would have cost me 1.5 years' salary. Now a 172 costs well over $200k. What happened? $200K is a long way past 1.5 times my salary. Dan |
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On Jun 22, 9:44*pm, Steve Hix
wrote: In article , wrote: On Jun 22, 3:55 pm, wrote: And since it is doubtfull you could build an airplane with automated machinery that inputs sheet steel, stamps out parts, and spot welds them together, airplanes will likely always be labor intensive to build. * * * * I dunno. When I learned to fly in the 1970s I asked the Cessna dealer how much a new 172 cost. "Way too much," he said. "$21,000." It WAS a lot, considering that I was making maybe $14000 a year, so it would have cost me 1.5 years' salary. * *Now a 172 costs well over $200k. What happened? $200K is a long way past 1.5 times my salary. Back in the early 70s the FBO I worked for bought a new Piper Fliteliner (PA28-140) to use for instruction. $20K. Two years later, they bought a basic new Warrior to help keep up with the growing student load. That one was $107K. I blame the lawyers, and the liability issues that followed in their train. Perhaps indeminfication of the manufacturer could become standard for certain types of aircraft. States life California might not allow it, but some states might. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
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Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
Perhaps indeminfication of the manufacturer could become standard for certain types of aircraft. States life California might not allow it, but some states might. -Le Chaud Lapin- Replace States with Countries and California with United States. |
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