How Beat The High Cost Of Fuel: The ElectraFlyer-C

Frank Olson wrote:

Look at their website... http://www.electraflyer.com/prices.html.
Heck... even their most expensive battery pack is "peanuts" compared to
the price you're going to pay for fuel for five years...

I did.

For $4400 to $8500 you get a battery pack for a single place ultralight
you will have to replace every 5 years or so whether you fly or not.

What's your fuel consumption now?? It's not going to change over five
years (unless you upgrade to a bigger plane)... What *is* going to
change is the cost per gallon.

Except my airplane if 4 place, not 1, and I can fly it into any
airport, which you can't do with an ultralight, so the comparison
is apples and lug wrenches.

Everyone that owns an aircraft knows how to budget. "Lump sum" payments
like propeller overhauls, engine overhauls... I set aside the dollars
for all these items for every hour I put on the Hobbs... Don't you??
Mind you I fly a medium twin (Piper Aerostar) and I don't like "lump
sum" payments anymore than you do.

Then you should have no problem with $4400 to $8500 every five years
for a 1 place ultralight.


What loan?? You buy the batteries with the aircraft. You budget for
replacement five years down the road (and add about 10 - 20 percent for
"contingencies")

The original thread was about FBO's having spare battery packs to keep
the airplanes flying between student/renters.

Please learn to read.

It isn't when you factor in a contingency for something like a rock or
bird strike...

Not much chance of a rock of bird strike with a 1 place ultralight;
the prop is high and the birds are faster.

Heh... Not on any of the conventional aircraft I've flown. I split my
time between a Cessna 185 on amphib floats and a Piper Aerostar.

That just means you don't have much experience.

And I would hardly call a 1 place ultralight a conventional aircraft.

Correct... There hasn't been a "TBO" set yet... So let's factor in
that cost as well... An electric motor is a pretty simple device
compared to even a normally aspirated IO-540...

True, but totally irrelevant.

I try to keep things simple. We were comparing the cost of fuel. I
threw in the other stuff to make a point. The cost your FBO is going to
charge on maintaining an electric motor over a reciprocating engine is
going to be "peanuts".

I'm sure the local FBO's are going to be standing in line to buy 1 place
ultralights.

Swapping the battery pack looks like something even my grand daughter
will be able to do... in a few years. :-)

Totally irrelevant to the cost of keeping the spares on hand.

Nope. It's "one" battery pack...

Not if you have to have spares on hand so the next renter can fly the
airplane without having to wait for the batteries to charge.

Huh?? You use a trickle charge to maintain the charge on the battery
(between uses), not to say... go cross country with the aircraft.

Huh my ass.

The original thread was that FBO's would keep precharged battery packs
on hand so the next customer can fly the plane without waiting hours
for the pack to recharge.

But that is rather moot as there are few FBO'x that are going to be
able to rent 1 place ultralights and zero that will be able to
provide training in them.

And all the little birdies sing "cheap, cheap, cheap!" :-)

If you are seeing little birdies, I would suggest seeing a doctor.

Spending $4400 to $8500 every five years on batteries to fly a 1 place
ultralight is not what I would call cheap.

Most 1 place ultralights burn less in gas in terms of dollars in a year
than I spend on french fries.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote:
Frank Olson wrote:

Look at their website... http://www.electraflyer.com/prices.html.
Heck... even their most expensive battery pack is "peanuts" compared to
the price you're going to pay for fuel for five years...

I did.

For $4400 to $8500 you get a battery pack for a single place ultralight
you will have to replace every 5 years or so whether you fly or not.

It's called "operational expenses". :-)



What's your fuel consumption now?? It's not going to change over five
years (unless you upgrade to a bigger plane)... What *is* going to
change is the cost per gallon.

Except my airplane if 4 place, not 1, and I can fly it into any
airport, which you can't do with an ultralight, so the comparison
is apples and lug wrenches.

Ya gots me there.



Everyone that owns an aircraft knows how to budget. "Lump sum" payments
like propeller overhauls, engine overhauls... I set aside the dollars
for all these items for every hour I put on the Hobbs... Don't you??
Mind you I fly a medium twin (Piper Aerostar) and I don't like "lump
sum" payments anymore than you do.

Then you should have no problem with $4400 to $8500 every five years
for a 1 place ultralight.

I'm waiting for the twin version. :-)




What loan?? You buy the batteries with the aircraft. You budget for
replacement five years down the road (and add about 10 - 20 percent for
"contingencies")

The original thread was about FBO's having spare battery packs to keep
the airplanes flying between student/renters.

Hmmmm... I must be blind. I can't seem to find that reference in the OP.



Please learn to read.

Check...



It isn't when you factor in a contingency for something like a rock or
bird strike...

Not much chance of a rock of bird strike with a 1 place ultralight;
the prop is high and the birds are faster.

Good points. Although I've witnessed a couple of bird strikes...



Heh... Not on any of the conventional aircraft I've flown. I split my
time between a Cessna 185 on amphib floats and a Piper Aerostar.

That just means you don't have much experience.

???



And I would hardly call a 1 place ultralight a conventional aircraft.

Hmmm... wings, undercarriage, tail, cockpit... Looks a lot like a
"conventional aircraft" to me...



Correct... There hasn't been a "TBO" set yet... So let's factor in
that cost as well... An electric motor is a pretty simple device
compared to even a normally aspirated IO-540...

True, but totally irrelevant.

To what??



I try to keep things simple. We were comparing the cost of fuel. I
threw in the other stuff to make a point. The cost your FBO is going to
charge on maintaining an electric motor over a reciprocating engine is
going to be "peanuts".

I'm sure the local FBO's are going to be standing in line to buy 1 place
ultralights.

You're not looking at the "big picture". This aircraft represents the
future of general aviation. We don't have a limitless supply of oil,
and we have to do something to reduce our carbon emissions.



Swapping the battery pack looks like something even my grand daughter
will be able to do... in a few years. :-)

Totally irrelevant to the cost of keeping the spares on hand.

"Spares" which you could swap between aircraft on the same flight line.



Nope. It's "one" battery pack...

Not if you have to have spares on hand so the next renter can fly the
airplane without having to wait for the batteries to charge.

It looks to me like the "cost" of the aircraft may very well prove to be
in reach of the "average Joe". Who needs to "rent" when you can "own".



Huh?? You use a trickle charge to maintain the charge on the battery
(between uses), not to say... go cross country with the aircraft.

Huh my ass.

Sorry... I don't swing that way.



The original thread was that FBO's would keep precharged battery packs
on hand so the next customer can fly the plane without waiting hours
for the pack to recharge.

The original post said nothing of the sort. The thread "digressed"
(much like this series of responses).



But that is rather moot as there are few FBO'x that are going to be
able to rent 1 place ultralights and zero that will be able to
provide training in them.

Check.



And all the little birdies sing "cheap, cheap, cheap!" :-)

If you are seeing little birdies, I would suggest seeing a doctor.

I see birdies everywhere. And my vision is just fine.



Spending $4400 to $8500 every five years on batteries to fly a 1 place
ultralight is not what I would call cheap.

No... but with advances in technology, the four place electric plane is
just around the corner. And who knows?? It could even be solar
powered... :-)



Most 1 place ultralights burn less in gas in terms of dollars in a year
than I spend on french fries.

I suppose... And a lot of them even use two stroke weed whacker
engines... Yech!!!

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:29:03 GMT, Frank Olson
wrote in
z1K7k.22157$kx.14483@pd7urf3no:

I'm waiting for the twin version. :-)

It looks as though development is planned to continue:


http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#198151
Fishman has about six flights on his ElectraFlyer-C. With real-world
experience behind him, plus calculations in front of him, Fishman
believes he may have in this aircraft a single-place experimental that
can fly at about 70 mph for up to one hour on batteries alone --
provided the pilot chooses to land with a half hour's power in
reserve. Maximum endurance under power (calculated, and to be proven
by further flight testing) is expected to be near 90 minutes. Fuel
cost for that flight? Less than 75 cents. The aircraft is scheduled to
be front and center at AirVenture Oshkosh this year, but Fishman told
AVweb last week that his eyes are on a bigger prize -- a larger, more
powerful, electric LSA.

Fishman's goals include plans to offer a 40-hp electric motor, plus a
controller and battery solution for use in highly efficient light
sport aircraft ... pending approval of and standards for electric
motors in LSAs. He's currently seeking sponsors, and the manufacturer
of a highly efficient, very lightweight airframe with which to
partner. Until then, expect Fishman's ElectraFlyer-C to be on display
this year at the epicenter of AirVenture Oshkosh -- AeroShell Square.
....
As it is, Fishman's ElectraFlyer-C is the pairing of his 29-pound,
18-hp electric motor and regenerative-braking-capable controller
package with two lithium polymer battery packs (that together weigh 78
pounds), adapted to an airframe that began life as a Moni motorglider.
The Moni is a highly efficient all-aluminum (and discontinued) design
with an 18:1 glide ratio and a 27.5-foot wingspan. Fishman says his
highly modified version, registered as the ElectraFlyer-C, weighs in
at just under 380 pounds with "full fuel," offers a confirmed
60-percent increase in thrust over the Moni, has made engine
reliability a non-issue and practically eliminates vibration and
engine noise. By AirVenture, Fishman believes the ElectraFlyer-C will
have proven it can climb at better than 500 fpm, cruise at 70 mph,
stall at 45, and fly under power for approximately 90 minutes (or 60
minutes if landing with the equivalent of a legal day VFR fuel
reserve). A portable 110-volt charger can refill the tanks (as it
were) in about six hours and more powerful chargers (220 volts) can do
the job faster (two hours) where suitable outlets are available.

NOTE: According to Fishman, following the first test flight, pilot Joe
Bennis' first words were, "I want one." And after speaking with
Fishman last week, it seems one person making the trip to Oshkosh this
year just might have that option. See also
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2722498...55156982/show/