Here's a question for the trolls and flight simmers

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality. it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-
447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators
work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed
to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality.
it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to
achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot


Well, we use 'em of course, but it's mainly because it's impractical to
actually set a 757 on fire.

Bertie

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:27:56 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-
447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators
work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed
to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality.
it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to
achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot


Well, we use 'em of course, but it's mainly because it's impractical to
actually set a 757 on fire.

Bertie

I have a friend who is part owner of a cherokee 140. ...the blandest
aeroplane in history???
he spent hundreds of hours flying microsoft flight sim and a few other
sims.
fair dinks, one day he was out with partner owner in a gusting
crosswind and almost lost the cherokee in a landing.

partner's conclusion was that he landed the simulator because not once
during the near prang did he apply rudder.
scared the partner to his boots.

turns out the sim setup at home doesnt have rudder pedals.

my conviction is that sims used as a substitute for real flying are a
bloody danger to all involved. they gradually replace the real skills
with slow reacting putty.
if you understand the body's processes of neurological tuning you will
have no problem understanding why.

Stealth(20 knot crosswinds from any direction ...not a problem) pilot

Stealth Pilot, ye manic homely swain, that butcher's cur is venom
mouthed, ye derogated:

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:27:56 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote in
m:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-
447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators
work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed
to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality.
it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to
achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot


Well, we use 'em of course, but it's mainly because it's impractical to
actually set a 757 on fire.

Bertie

I have a friend

****ing liar.

--
Hammer of Thor: February 2007. Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook,
Line & Sinker: September 2005, April 2006, January 2007.
Official Member: Cabal Obsidian Order COOSN-124-07-06660
Official Overseer of Kooks & Trolls in 24hoursupport.helpdesk

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:37:00 -1200, "Kadaitcha Man"
wrote:

Stealth Pilot, ye manic homely swain, that butcher's cur is venom
mouthed, ye derogated:

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:27:56 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-
447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators
work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed
to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality.
it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to
achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot


Well, we use 'em of course, but it's mainly because it's impractical to
actually set a 757 on fire.

Bertie

I have a friend

****ing liar.

that's an exaggeration. I was inaccurate. I actually have lots of
friends. most are enthusiasts, some are pilots as well.

beware or I'll sick a featherfoot upon ye.

Stealth pilot

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:



I have a friend who is part owner of a cherokee 140. ...the blandest
aeroplane in history???
he spent hundreds of hours flying microsoft flight sim and a few other
sims.
fair dinks, one day he was out with partner owner in a gusting
crosswind and almost lost the cherokee in a landing.

partner's conclusion was that he landed the simulator because not once
during the near prang did he apply rudder.
scared the partner to his boots.

turns out the sim setup at home doesnt have rudder pedals.

my conviction is that sims used as a substitute for real flying are a
bloody danger to all involved. they gradually replace the real skills
with slow reacting putty.
if you understand the body's processes of neurological tuning you will
have no problem understanding why.

Stealth(20 knot crosswinds from any direction ...not a problem) pilot


To be fair, a lot of people who learned to fly in Cherokees don't use
rudder in a crosswind. Mostly because they haven't been taught to. The
Cherokee will tolerate landing in a crab more than most. In fact
wheelchair pilots are allowed to fly them with a snap-on hand control
that even people who rent can use. Just snaps in and out. The only
restriction which has to be aded to the POH is a crosswind limit 2 knots
lower.
The wheelchair people aside, it's a sloppy way to land an airplane
compared to using the wing down and riskier also.


Bertie

On Jul 2, 3:46 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

To be fair, a lot of people who learned to fly in Cherokees don't use
rudder in a crosswind. Mostly because they haven't been taught to. The
Cherokee will tolerate landing in a crab more than most. In fact
wheelchair pilots are allowed to fly them with a snap-on hand control
that even people who rent can use. Just snaps in and out. The only
restriction which has to be aded to the POH is a crosswind limit 2 knots
lower.
The wheelchair people aside, it's a sloppy way to land an airplane
compared to using the wing down and riskier also.


That is why I'd recommend any PPL to do a couple of hours in a
sailplane.
You really have to get to use the rudder...

george wrote in news:75210936-611c-4a11-9e53-204cdc6f7fe0
@w4g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

On Jul 2, 3:46 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

To be fair, a lot of people who learned to fly in Cherokees don't use
rudder in a crosswind. Mostly because they haven't been taught to. The
Cherokee will tolerate landing in a crab more than most. In fact
wheelchair pilots are allowed to fly them with a snap-on hand control
that even people who rent can use. Just snaps in and out. The only
restriction which has to be aded to the POH is a crosswind limit 2 knots
lower.
The wheelchair people aside, it's a sloppy way to land an airplane
compared to using the wing down and riskier also.


That is why I'd recommend any PPL to do a couple of hours in a
sailplane.
You really have to get to use the rudder...



Yeah, or a old taildragger like a cub or champ.


Bertie

On Jul 2, 10:42 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Yeah, or a old taildragger like a cub or champ.

I flew a PA22 that later got converted to a tail dragger.
However with the coordinated control system that it came with made for
some very interesting crosswind landings