How much fuel do you prefer to carry?

writes:

If visibility is 4.5 miles, you are by defininition in IMC.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 4.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. At 4.5 miles, you're only
60-90 seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

Hard experience has taught the aviation industry that just being clear of
low-visibility weather isn't enough; you have to keep a safety margin between
you and that weather. That means that you have to be on instruments once
you're inside that margin. If you wait until you really can't see anything,
it might be too late, especially if you are unprepared.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 2.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. In IMC, instruments become
your final reference, no matter what you see out the window. When visibility
drops, instruments are your exclusive reference, no matter what you feel.

On Aug 13, 3:55*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
If visibility is 4.5 miles, you are by defininition in IMC.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 4.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. *At 4.5 miles, you're only
60-90 seconds away from not being able to see anything. *Are you ready for
that?

Hard experience has taught the aviation industry that just being clear of
low-visibility weather isn't enough; you have to keep a safety margin between
you and that weather. *That means that you have to be on instruments once
you're inside that margin. *If you wait until you really can't see anything,
it might be too late, especially if you are unprepared.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 2.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. *In IMC, instruments become
your final reference, no matter what you see out the window. *When visibility
drops, instruments are your exclusive reference, no matter what you feel.

You are, in this thread, at an intellectual and experience
disadvantage. You asserted a requirement to be in instruments in IMC:
that is wrong.

EVERY current instrument rated pilot does transitions between
reference to instruments and outside reference. We do it on take off,
en route, on approach, and on the miss in actual. That you don't
understand that, that it is outside your experience, does not make it
not true. You have typed yourself into a corner, and now are looking
for a way to regain some creditability, and it is not working.

writes:

EVERY current instrument rated pilot does transitions between
reference to instruments and outside reference.

When did the discussion become limited to IR pilots? Most pilots in this
newsgroup rather obviously do not have instrument ratings, if one can judge by
what they claim about IMC and IFR.

On Aug 13, 10:45*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
EVERY current instrument rated *pilot does transitions between
reference to instruments and outside reference.

When did the discussion become limited to IR pilots? *Most pilots in this
newsgroup rather obviously do not have instrument ratings, if one can judge by
what they claim about IMC and IFR.

You were the one making definitive statements about flight in IMC, and
you are clearly not knowledgeable.

wrote in message
...
On Aug 13, 10:45 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
EVERY current instrument rated pilot does transitions between
reference to instruments and outside reference.

When did the discussion become limited to IR pilots? Most pilots in this
newsgroup rather obviously do not have instrument ratings, if one can
judge by
what they claim about IMC and IFR.

One can NOT.

You were the one making definitive statements about flight in IMC, and
you are clearly not knowledgeable.



--
Regards, BobF.

writes:

You were the one making definitive statements about flight in IMC, and
you are clearly not knowledgeable.

Flight in IMC and instrument-rated pilots are two different things. And you
haven't answered my question.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

If visibility is 4.5 miles, you are by defininition in IMC.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 4.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. At 4.5 miles, you're only
60-90 seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

If you are in class G at 10,001 feet and the visibilty is 4.5 miles,
you are in IMC.

If you drop down to 9,999 feet with the same visibilty, you are in VMC.

If you are 2001 feet horizontally from a cloud, you only about 0.3
seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

Have you a clue yet how ridiculous your absolute statements are?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

If you are in class G at 10,001 feet and the visibilty is 4.5 miles,
you are in IMC.

If you drop down to 9,999 feet with the same visibilty, you are in VMC.

If you are 2001 feet horizontally from a cloud, you only about 0.3
seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

Have you a clue yet how ridiculous your absolute statements are?

Not having an aircraft that can manage Mach 5, it's hard for me to put your
claim in perspective.

What puzzles me is that you're trying to justify behavior that is
extraordinarily unwise. Trying to see how close you can come to inadequate
visibility without actually flying by instruments is asking for trouble. I
can only assume that you are doing this because I'm advocating reliance on
instruments, despite the fact that I'm just repeating some very
well-established principles of aviation.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

If you are in class G at 10,001 feet and the visibilty is 4.5 miles,
you are in IMC.

If you drop down to 9,999 feet with the same visibilty, you are in VMC.

If you are 2001 feet horizontally from a cloud, you only about 0.3
seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

Have you a clue yet how ridiculous your absolute statements are?

Not having an aircraft that can manage Mach 5, it's hard for me to put your
claim in perspective.

Babbling nonsense on oh so many levels.

What puzzles me is that you're trying to justify behavior that is
extraordinarily unwise. Trying to see how close you can come to inadequate
visibility without actually flying by instruments is asking for trouble. I
can only assume that you are doing this because I'm advocating reliance on
instruments, despite the fact that I'm just repeating some very
well-established principles of aviation.

What puzzles you is everything most everyone else says.

I was stating facts.

Do you concider 4.5 miles "inadequate visibility"?

You are not "repeating some very well-established principles of aviation",
you are voicing your interpretation with zero experience to back it up.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Aug 13, 9:49*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

What puzzles me is that you're trying to justify behavior that is
extraordinarily unwise. *Trying to see how close you can come to inadequate
visibility without actually flying by instruments is asking for trouble.

You just don't get it. Transitioning between outside visual reference
and reference to instruments is not "extraordinarily unwise," it is
normal, natural, and happens all the time.
I remember well my first solo long cross country with a new instrument
ticket in my wallet.
My ride was one of Le Tourneau University's air-conditioned Piper
Archers from Longview, TX. to San Antonio. There was lots of scattered
puffy white clouds nearly the entire way. I purposefully asked ATC for
an altitude that put me right in the middle of them. Very bumpy ride
but boy, I sure wanted to be in & out of the clouds as much as
possible as a hot, new IFR pilot. When I was not in the clouds I flew
by visual reference to the clouds & horizon. As the Archer penetrated
a cloud I transitioned my reference or view back onto the instruments.
I had an auto pilot but no way was I going to use it! That long cross
country was on an official IFR flight plan, in IMC, yet much of the
time I was flying by visual reference, much of the time I was flying
by instruments. Anthony? You with me? Did you read that?
That remains as one of the most enjoyable IFR flights I've ever taken,
so much fun. San Antonio approach was obviously taken aback that I
wanted the ILS to 12 R (the big jet runway) instead of a visual to 12
L (the smaller GA runway) it was a nice VFR day down low but I was
determined to end that flight just right. I do believe that was the
most accurate ILS I've ever shot with my hands alone. Fun, fun, fun!

Ricky