A Google Groups alternative to rec.aviation.piloting?

On Aug 16, 6:26*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I haven't lowered my standards one iota. I just save them for forums
where I don't have to deal with idiots.

Sorry Dudley. You do lower your standards of your replies when you
say you come down to the trolls level. Not only that, the above
statement is very condescending to those that do participate in the
USENET since apparently there are no idiots at POA or AOPA forums????

Replies like you said in this very thread such as

God, people like you burn my ****ing ass.
Go get ****ed you idiot!

surely don't bode well for new people coming through and seeing what
standards you have or your replies are like. I personally think you
are above that, but then again, who am I to say, since I am just a
background observer.

The above is not like you in all my time here or RAP or RAS. I had to
compare past headers to present to see that you weren't being spoofed
or whateva....

Like Jim said, if you really don't have anything good to say, don't
post. You really don't have to deal with idiots, UNLESS YOU choose to.

Allen

wrote:
On Aug 16, 6:26 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I haven't lowered my standards one iota. I just save them for forums
where I don't have to deal with idiots.

Sorry Dudley. You do lower your standards of your replies when you
say you come down to the trolls level. Not only that, the above
statement is very condescending to those that do participate in the
USENET since apparently there are no idiots at POA or AOPA forums????

Replies like you said in this very thread such as

God, people like you burn my ****ing ass.
Go get ****ed you idiot!

surely don't bode well for new people coming through and seeing what
standards you have or your replies are like. I personally think you
are above that, but then again, who am I to say, since I am just a
background observer.

The above is not like you in all my time here or RAP or RAS. I had to
compare past headers to present to see that you weren't being spoofed
or whateva....

Like Jim said, if you really don't have anything good to say, don't
post. You really don't have to deal with idiots, UNLESS YOU choose to.

Allen

Try posting an aviation related comment to me if you want mature and
reasonable exchange. Other than that, and in answer to this kind of
post, expect my usual "go **** yourself!"
You will notice that every post where I use this term is in ANSWER to a
post to me or about me by someone posting a non aviation related
comment .
Just sick of dealing with it and won't any more.

If, on the other hand you wish to deal with me on an aviation basis,
please feel free to contact me on any other forum but this one. You will
be surprised at the change in my persona.
Thank you

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques writes:

Try posting an aviation related comment to me if you want mature and
reasonable exchange.

I don't think you ever addressed the question I had about nose-up pitch in
Cessnas on rotation.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dudley Henriques writes:

Try posting an aviation related comment to me if you want mature and
reasonable exchange.

I don't think you ever addressed the question I had about nose-up
pitch in Cessnas on rotation.

Why should any pilot help a jackass sim kiddie like you. You repeatedly
told all the real pilots, including CFIs and ATPs, who did try and answer
your questions in the past how much more you know about aviation than all
of them combined, even though your only experience with flying was through
MSFS. You have no concept of the difference between MSFS and reality, but
nonetheless you constantly lectured those of us who did how you were right
and we were wrong. Do you expect any of us to now help you for free? Go
ask all the pilots you claim you regualarly talk with. Or were you lying
about that?

You are a complete and total fraud Anthony. You are not worth helping.
Crawl back into your hovel and play with yourself.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

Try posting an aviation related comment to me if you want mature and
reasonable exchange.

I don't think you ever addressed the question I had about nose-up pitch in
Cessnas on rotation.

No problem. If my worst enemy posts an aviation related question to me
in a respectful manner on this forum, they deserve a respectful answer,
and that includes you Mx. If everybody else around here dealt with
people in this way the group would be much better for it.
Notice no "GFU" this time!

Anyway, about your question;

As you know, lift increases with airspeed, so actually, the pilot, by
applying back pressure at rotation, is simply helping a natural process
that would lift the aircraft off the runway as the airspeed produces the
needed lift for the gross weight and at the same time controlling that
natural process in both direction and pitch.

I haven't actually noticed the behavior of the 182 in the simulator so I
can't comment on that, but if I recall, you said something about it
being too flat???

You don't want a lot of pitch input at rotation in most airplanes as it
is possible if you lead the lift a bit to drag the tail. If you have the
needed lift, as soon as the wing senses the increase in angle of attack
the airplane will leave the runway. The trick when this happens is
actually to keep the nose down in some airplanes rather than raise it
because if the aircraft is accelerating (and it is), it "wants" to go UP!

A B52 is a perfect example of a flat rotation. Watch a video of a B52
takeoff and you will notice that the aircraft just seems to "leave the
runway". This is a normal take off for the 52. In the cockpit, the
actual yoke pitch input is quite small in this airplane.

For a 182, you should be getting a normal rotation with just a little
yoke pressure at lift off causing that as the airplane reaches the
airspeed where lift is being created that allows the airplane to fly.

If you are seeing a flat rotation in the sim for the 182, try simply
using a bit more yoke pressure but not enough that you exceed Vy. Just
rotate and then find the nose attitude that produces a Vy airspeed for
you as you clean up the airplane into climb settings.

Hope this is helpful.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques writes:

As you know, lift increases with airspeed, so actually, the pilot, by
applying back pressure at rotation, is simply helping a natural process
that would lift the aircraft off the runway as the airspeed produces the
needed lift for the gross weight and at the same time controlling that
natural process in both direction and pitch.

I haven't actually noticed the behavior of the 182 in the simulator so I
can't comment on that, but if I recall, you said something about it
being too flat???

It doesn't seem to pitch up in the way that other aircraft do. I pull back on
the stick and it rises a little bit, but not like other aircraft.

Watching videos of these Cessnas taking off, it also appears that they don't
pitch up much as they leave the runway, or before leaving the runway.

I figured it might have something to do with the high-wing design (?).

As far as I can tell (I just compared again), the videos match the sim, or
perhaps I should say the sim matches the videos, and I tried two different
Cessnas (one by Carenado, and one by Flight1).

You don't want a lot of pitch input at rotation in most airplanes as it
is possible if you lead the lift a bit to drag the tail. If you have the
needed lift, as soon as the wing senses the increase in angle of attack
the airplane will leave the runway. The trick when this happens is
actually to keep the nose down in some airplanes rather than raise it
because if the aircraft is accelerating (and it is), it "wants" to go UP!

Cessnas seem eager to fly. But I'm still rotating at too high a speed (around
80 KIAS), which could have something to do with that.

A B52 is a perfect example of a flat rotation. Watch a video of a B52
takeoff and you will notice that the aircraft just seems to "leave the
runway". This is a normal take off for the 52. In the cockpit, the
actual yoke pitch input is quite small in this airplane.

I've read that the angle of incidence on the B-52 is so severe that it can
take off with the fuselage level, and it can land with the fuselage nose-down.
Videos seem to confirm this.

For a 182, you should be getting a normal rotation with just a little
yoke pressure at lift off causing that as the airplane reaches the
airspeed where lift is being created that allows the airplane to fly.

That seems to be what is happening. In the Baron I need to be more brisk
about pulling back the yoke.

If you are seeing a flat rotation in the sim for the 182, try simply
using a bit more yoke pressure but not enough that you exceed Vy. Just
rotate and then find the nose attitude that produces a Vy airspeed for
you as you clean up the airplane into climb settings.

I will keep practicing. Right now I'm wrestling with the AFDS on a 767 (VNAV
on the FMC isn't very good at respecting altitude constraints on a descent
profile), but I'll probably fire up my 182 just to take a break (something
_completely_ different).

Mxsmanic wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

As you know, lift increases with airspeed, so actually, the pilot, by
applying back pressure at rotation, is simply helping a natural process
that would lift the aircraft off the runway as the airspeed produces the
needed lift for the gross weight and at the same time controlling that
natural process in both direction and pitch.

I haven't actually noticed the behavior of the 182 in the simulator so I
can't comment on that, but if I recall, you said something about it
being too flat???

It doesn't seem to pitch up in the way that other aircraft do. I pull back on
the stick and it rises a little bit, but not like other aircraft.

It might be a glitch in the program. Microsoft had the DC3 coupling in
yaw/roll in the wrong direction until we spotted it during the FSX beta
process and had them correct it :-)

Watching videos of these Cessnas taking off, it also appears that they don't
pitch up much as they leave the runway, or before leaving the runway.

I figured it might have something to do with the high-wing design (?).

The wing on the Cessna is slippery with angle of attack and will react
quickly. Each wing on an airplane is a bit different. It all has to do
with how the leading edge handles the angle of attack change as the
airplane rotates. Some leading edges are more pronounced than others.
The Cherokee wing for example (the old Hershey Bar wing) had a very
pronounced leading edge curve that rotated the airplane quickly as the
angle of attack increased. The Cessna leading edge is a bit more
streamlined and the lift increase RATE at rotation might be a bit flatter.
The answer is on the individual lift curves for every wing where lift
coefficient vs aoa can be viewed.

As far as I can tell (I just compared again), the videos match the sim, or
perhaps I should say the sim matches the videos, and I tried two different
Cessnas (one by Carenado, and one by Flight1).

You don't want a lot of pitch input at rotation in most airplanes as it
is possible if you lead the lift a bit to drag the tail. If you have the
needed lift, as soon as the wing senses the increase in angle of attack
the airplane will leave the runway. The trick when this happens is
actually to keep the nose down in some airplanes rather than raise it
because if the aircraft is accelerating (and it is), it "wants" to go UP!

Cessnas seem eager to fly. But I'm still rotating at too high a speed (around
80 KIAS), which could have something to do with that.

80 isn't all that bad for a normal takeoff in a 182. Sea Level Vy for
the airplane if I remember is right around 78kts? Been a long time :-)

A B52 is a perfect example of a flat rotation. Watch a video of a B52
takeoff and you will notice that the aircraft just seems to "leave the
runway". This is a normal take off for the 52. In the cockpit, the
actual yoke pitch input is quite small in this airplane.

I've read that the angle of incidence on the B-52 is so severe that it can
take off with the fuselage level, and it can land with the fuselage nose-down.
Videos seem to confirm this.

It is interesting to watch.

For a 182, you should be getting a normal rotation with just a little
yoke pressure at lift off causing that as the airplane reaches the
airspeed where lift is being created that allows the airplane to fly.

That seems to be what is happening. In the Baron I need to be more brisk
about pulling back the yoke.

That computes for me.

If you are seeing a flat rotation in the sim for the 182, try simply
using a bit more yoke pressure but not enough that you exceed Vy. Just
rotate and then find the nose attitude that produces a Vy airspeed for
you as you clean up the airplane into climb settings.

I will keep practicing. Right now I'm wrestling with the AFDS on a 767 (VNAV
on the FMC isn't very good at respecting altitude constraints on a descent
profile), but I'll probably fire up my 182 just to take a break (something
_completely_ different).

Hang in there. You're doing fine!


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques writes:

80 isn't all that bad for a normal takeoff in a 182. Sea Level Vy for
the airplane if I remember is right around 78kts? Been a long time :-)

Hmm ... in that case I guess I'm doing okay. I like having airspeed.

Hang in there. You're doing fine!

Well, my last 767 flight (and most 767 flights before that) ended in tragedy.
I've only managed two decent landings, and they were both autolands. It seems
that 767s just don't want to descend.

However, I just managed a very clean flight in the 182, VFR at night no less.

On Aug 16, 7:20*pm, Dudley Henriques

Just sick of dealing with it and won't any more.

So don't..... :-((((((((

Lowers your blood pressure and improves the quality of the group.

I really thought better of you.... but again, oh well...

Last I will post on this topic........

wrote:
On Aug 16, 7:20 pm, Dudley Henriques

Just sick of dealing with it and won't any more.

So don't..... :-((((((((

Lowers your blood pressure and improves the quality of the group.

I really thought better of you.... but again, oh well...

Last I will post on this topic........

THANK GOD!!! :-))

--
Dudley Henriques