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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 17th 08, 05:16 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
La N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president


"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article NBMpk.8108$nu6.4118@edtnps83,
says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...

Pointing out that shooting weapons into the air in an area with
insugents around is a bad idea is blaming the victims ?

If you're dropping bombs on weddings the implication is thst
there's
nobody
on the ground shouting 'don't shoot, it's a wedding'.

If your shooting into the air with aircraft around the implication
is
you are trying to hit somebody.

Or celebrating something...

Would you care to be in the aircraft at night and have to make the
decision ?


There are 2 issues here.

The first is, the bombing(s) of a wedding party was a terrible error.
Given. The Americans don't bomb innocent civilians intentionally.


Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.



It is indeed an absurd statement.




The second issue is, that doesn't make the people - Pakistanis - like
you
more, even when they know that.


I'd imagine it wouldn't make anyone happy.

I've yet to see a solution suggested though.


A solution to ... what?

Here's the deal. It is what it is. American foreign policy gets instituted
and we get into the cause-and-effect thingy. Americans generally don't have
a good idea as to how they are perceived by "furriners". I imagine most
Americans don't care or would tend to think that the "furriner" thinking is
wrong. Generally speaking, the Pakistanis hate you. However, most
(conservative) Americans would like to believe that they ("the Pakis") are
all lining up for Green Cards to run 7/11s in Michigan.

Is it any wonder the world is in the state it is?

- nilita



  #2  
Old August 17th 08, 06:01 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
tankfixer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 80
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president

In article HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83,
says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article NBMpk.8108$nu6.4118@edtnps83,

says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...

Pointing out that shooting weapons into the air in an area with
insugents around is a bad idea is blaming the victims ?

If you're dropping bombs on weddings the implication is thst
there's
nobody
on the ground shouting 'don't shoot, it's a wedding'.

If your shooting into the air with aircraft around the implication
is
you are trying to hit somebody.

Or celebrating something...

Would you care to be in the aircraft at night and have to make the
decision ?


There are 2 issues here.

The first is, the bombing(s) of a wedding party was a terrible error.
Given. The Americans don't bomb innocent civilians intentionally.


Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.



It is indeed an absurd statement.




The second issue is, that doesn't make the people - Pakistanis - like
you
more, even when they know that.


I'd imagine it wouldn't make anyone happy.

I've yet to see a solution suggested though.


A solution to ... what?

Here's the deal. It is what it is. American foreign policy gets instituted
and we get into the cause-and-effect thingy. Americans generally don't have
a good idea as to how they are perceived by "furriners". I imagine most
Americans don't care or would tend to think that the "furriner" thinking is
wrong. Generally speaking, the Pakistanis hate you. However, most
(conservative) Americans would like to believe that they ("the Pakis") are
all lining up for Green Cards to run 7/11s in Michigan.


You were doing ok until you got sophmoric about Pakistani's and 7/11's.


Is it any wonder the world is in the state it is?


What solution to you propose ?

--

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.

The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made so and kept so by the exertions of much better men than himself.

John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) English economist and philosopher.
  #3  
Old August 17th 08, 10:47 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president

Here's the deal. *It is what it is. *American foreign policy gets instituted
and we get into the cause-and-effect thingy. *Americans generally don't have
a good idea as to how they are perceived by "furriners". *I imagine most
Americans don't care or would tend to think that the "furriner" thinking is
wrong. *Generally speaking, the Pakistanis hate you. *However, most
(conservative) Americans would like to believe that they ("the Pakis") are
all lining up for Green Cards to run 7/11s in Michigan.


They'd also line up in Sangatte if they can, it's got nothing to do
with trivial local political sensibilities, or whether they like you
or not. Their mindset is that of the dust bowl, survive. Read
Steinbeck or live in a place you can't even trust your drinking
water.for a while.

Is it any wonder the world is in the state it is?


I assume you are thinking it is in a sad state?
  #4  
Old August 17th 08, 11:12 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
William Black[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 176
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president


"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...

"tankfixer" wrote in message


Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.



It is indeed an absurd statement.


So why are they still bombing weddings?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.



  #5  
Old August 17th 08, 01:49 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
La N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president


"William Black" wrote in message
...

"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...

"tankfixer" wrote in message


Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.



It is indeed an absurd statement.


So why are they still bombing weddings?


Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like
weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.?

- nilita


  #7  
Old August 17th 08, 10:27 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
William Black[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 176
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president


"La N" wrote in message
news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...

"tankfixer" wrote in message


Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.



It is indeed an absurd statement.


So why are they still bombing weddings?


Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like
weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.?


I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the
culture of the people on their side that they're killing.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.



  #8  
Old August 18th 08, 01:39 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
Paul J. Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president

In message , William Black
writes
"La N" wrote in message
news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82...
Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like
weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.?


I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the
culture of the people on their side that they're killing.


The locals fire small-arms into the air at some celebrations. This is
hardly a shocking surprise. Deal with it.

This ought to be a compulsory part of RSOI, along with a proper threat
brief about what does and does not kill aircraft in theatre.
(Spray-and-pray small arms fire hasn't clocked up many kills anywhere,
even for fast jets flying low enough for it to reach)


The USAF has earned itself a reputation, though. I recall one 2005
incident where a company of infantry - over a hundred troops, a dozen
big armoured vehicles and more soft-skinned transport, lots of kit and
signature - came under fire from an AC-130 which claimed that (a) the
range should have been cleared for it so the infantry shouldn't have
been there and (b) after meticulous examination it didn't see _anyone_
on the ground so thought it could fire freely.

(a) is a procedural or administrative problem. (b) says that the vaunted
sensors either weren't all that or actually weren't checked. (Strangely,
the recordings from the AC-130 were irretrievably mislaid before the
inquiry)



--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com
  #9  
Old August 18th 08, 04:22 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
Andrew Chaplin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 728
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , William Black
writes
"La N" wrote in message
news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82...
Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like
weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.?


I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the
culture of the people on their side that they're killing.


The locals fire small-arms into the air at some celebrations. This is hardly
a shocking surprise. Deal with it.

This ought to be a compulsory part of RSOI, along with a proper threat brief
about what does and does not kill aircraft in theatre. (Spray-and-pray small
arms fire hasn't clocked up many kills anywhere, even for fast jets flying
low enough for it to reach)


The USAF has earned itself a reputation, though. I recall one 2005 incident
where a company of infantry - over a hundred troops, a dozen big armoured
vehicles and more soft-skinned transport, lots of kit and signature - came
under fire from an AC-130 which claimed that (a) the range should have been
cleared for it so the infantry shouldn't have been there and (b) after
meticulous examination it didn't see _anyone_ on the ground so thought it
could fire freely.

(a) is a procedural or administrative problem. (b) says that the vaunted
sensors either weren't all that or actually weren't checked. (Strangely, the
recordings from the AC-130 were irretrievably mislaid before the inquiry)


The whole Tarnak Farm affair back in '02 is similar. The Pats filed the
appropriate plan announcing that they were training, and the f***ers drafting
the ASOI never passed it on. **** me! Staff wienies killed soldiers through
negligence.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)


  #10  
Old August 18th 08, 03:22 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval
Dan[_12_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 451
Default Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president

William Black wrote:
"La N" wrote in message
news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82...
"William Black" wrote in message
...
"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...
"tankfixer" wrote in message
Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.


It is indeed an absurd statement.

So why are they still bombing weddings?

Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like
weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.?


I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the
culture of the people on their side that they're killing.


How many weddings has the U.S. actually struck?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
 




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