Best dogfight gun?

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:33:04 -0800, Lyle wrote:


Ed,

What is the difference between direct close airsupport, and close
airsupport, or is it just all lumped together and called close air
support.

Sounds like some sort of semantic argument. I never heard the term
"direct close air support" used in any official context. Close Air
Support is the employment of tac air assets in direct support of
ground units. It would, by its very nature be "direct".

The only distinctions I am aware of are between CAS (i.e. hitting the
enemy's front line) and BAI (Battlefield Air Interdiction) which is
hitting the enemy's assets slightly behind their front line to get
supplies, units moving up etc.

Of course, since some elements of 'CAS' are now delivered from bombers
cruising at altitude, perhaps they've added to the nomenclature!

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
Ed Rasimus wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:33:04 -0800, Lyle wrote:


Ed,

What is the difference between direct close airsupport, and close
airsupport, or is it just all lumped together and called close air
support.

Sounds like some sort of semantic argument. I never heard the term
"direct close air support" used in any official context. Close Air
Support is the employment of tac air assets in direct support of
ground units. It would, by its very nature be "direct".

The only distinctions I am aware of are between CAS (i.e. hitting the
enemy's front line) and BAI (Battlefield Air Interdiction) which is
hitting the enemy's assets slightly behind their front line to get
supplies, units moving up etc.

There are two types of CAS--immediate and preplanned. Preplanned icludes CAS
sorties integrated into the ground maneuver plan and submitted IAW the ATO.
Immediate CAS is not included in the ATO (at least not specifically; CAS
sorties can be included in the ATO without specifications, from what I
gather, sort of a "CAS reserve") and addresses those situations not foreseen
in the planning process. According to CGSC ST 100-3 (1996 edition),
immediate CAS provides the commander with flexibility, and can be used to
exploit success, reinforce or retain momentum, deal with enemy
counterattacks, and provide security.

Either Buffdriver or the resident Strike eagle Driver might be able to shed
light on any doctrinal changes in the CAS arena that have occurred since the
publication of that text.

Brooks


Of course, since some elements of 'CAS' are now delivered from bombers
cruising at altitude, perhaps they've added to the nomenclature!

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

Ed,

What is the difference between direct close airsupport, and close
airsupport, or is it just all lumped together and called close air
support.

I think what you might be referring to is Close Air Support and Troops In
Contact. Troops In Contact is a type of CAS where the troops are in direct
fire with the enemy. General rule of thumb is if the bad guys are one
kilometer or less from the good guys, it's a TIC situation. That range can
be a lot greater depending on the situation (i.e. - tank v. tank
engagement).

Sounds like some sort of semantic argument. I never heard the term
"direct close air support" used in any official context. Close Air
Support is the employment of tac air assets in direct support of
ground units. It would, by its very nature be "direct".

The only distinctions I am aware of are between CAS (i.e. hitting the
enemy's front line) and BAI (Battlefield Air Interdiction) which is
hitting the enemy's assets slightly behind their front line to get
supplies, units moving up etc.

There are two types of CAS--immediate and preplanned. Preplanned icludes
CAS
sorties integrated into the ground maneuver plan and submitted IAW the
ATO.
Immediate CAS is not included in the ATO (at least not specifically; CAS
sorties can be included in the ATO without specifications, from what I
gather, sort of a "CAS reserve") and addresses those situations not
foreseen
in the planning process. According to CGSC ST 100-3 (1996 edition),
immediate CAS provides the commander with flexibility, and can be used to
exploit success, reinforce or retain momentum, deal with enemy
counterattacks, and provide security.

This is old stuff. Pre-planned CAS still exists largely as you describe it,
but the other type of CAS which used to be 'immediate' CAS (as it exists on
an ATO) is X-CAS, or 'Push' CAS. The idea is to have a predetermined number
of assets airborne for a particular Vul period, either in a CAS stack or in
kill boxes. These assets can then be assigned to do a variety of tasks,
such as striking a TST (time sensitive target), immediate CAS request from a
FAC forwarded to the ASOC, emergency CAS for non-FAC qualified troops, etc.

The new book on JCAS is the 3-09.3, and while it doesn't deal with the ATO
aspects (in the Air Force the reference for that would be the 3-1), it is
very much the TT&P on how to do CAS today.

Either Buffdriver or the resident Strike eagle Driver might be able to
shed
light on any doctrinal changes in the CAS arena that have occurred since
the
publication of that text.

Brooks

Give me a second while I stow my used barf-bag. I realize that CAS is a
mission, not an aircraft, but there is an aircraft in the inventory that
does the mission better than any other. Dropping a JDAM on coordinates just
isn't going to work for TIC situations, for starters.

Of course, since some elements of 'CAS' are now delivered from bombers
cruising at altitude, perhaps they've added to the nomenclature!

*BARF*!!!