Fake military guys & the Stolen Valor Act of 2005

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

Chuck and Mary Shantag, mentioned in the original post, are the
premier sleuths in digging up the facts on these folks. The poseurs
and wannabes are despicable and should be prosecuted to the maximum
extent of the law. Chuck and Mary do a great job of that. They come to
the annual River Rats reunions and are well supported by all of us.

You miss my point.

1. Why do the fakers do it?

2. Why do people like the Shantags spend their lives looking for them?

While there may be some false glamour is the pretence it's surely only a
matter of time before they're exposed, and as for chasing them, don't
these people have a life? If you want to spend your time doing good works I
can think of several that are more rewarding.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

William Black ha scritto:


1. Why do the fakers do it?

2. Why do people like the Shantags spend their lives looking for them?

Another question: where one draw the line between posers and talltellers ?

I write from s.m.n. but I guess that also the people in rec.aviation.*
knew the old saying "sailor's story"........


Once here on the Rivista Marittima was an interesting article about the
perception of the number of sunken RN submarines, pointing out facts
like that in relatively shallow waters, the reflex wave of depth charges
came to the surface as a cigar-shaped rising of water whose in the heat
of action and/or limited light condition can easily taken for a capsized
submarine hull rising then sinking for all.

And also there was the pathethic case of the Commander Grosso, whose
misidentify CA's for BB's and different bearing angles for sinking
conditionsm ending in a double granting and double rewoking of Gold
Medals of Valor (an really exceptional case, esp. involving our highest
decoration)

Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:42:44 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .

Chuck and Mary Shantag, mentioned in the original post, are the
premier sleuths in digging up the facts on these folks. The poseurs
and wannabes are despicable and should be prosecuted to the maximum
extent of the law. Chuck and Mary do a great job of that. They come to
the annual River Rats reunions and are well supported by all of us.

You miss my point.

1. Why do the fakers do it?

For the same reason people steal. They wish to have something of value
which they did not earn.

While they may have devalued military service in general and heroism
in particular they believe as well that they accrue some benefit by
claiming exceptional combat valor, courage and credentials.

2. Why do people like the Shantags spend their lives looking for them?

While there may be some false glamour is the pretence it's surely only a
matter of time before they're exposed, and as for chasing them, don't
these people have a life? If you want to spend your time doing good works I
can think of several that are more rewarding.

Chuck is a retired Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam
experience. They got involved with the search for POW verifications
and became very active in the POW/MIA activities. Gradually they
drifted into the Stolen Valor research and have built a network of
sources that make them the recognized US experts in the business.

There is no money in it, obviously, but there is a deep sense of
satisfaction. Bringing these creeps to justice isn't quite as visceral
as punching their lights out, but it can be more effective in
derailing them in the long run.

Personally I still lean toward cutting off their buttons, ripping
their epaulets, breaking their saber over my knee and tossing them out
the gate...but that's just me.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
www.thunderchief.org

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:31:53 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:42:44 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
. ..

Chuck and Mary Shantag, mentioned in the original post, are the
premier sleuths in digging up the facts on these folks. The poseurs
and wannabes are despicable and should be prosecuted to the maximum
extent of the law. Chuck and Mary do a great job of that. They come to
the annual River Rats reunions and are well supported by all of us.

You miss my point.

1. Why do the fakers do it?

For the same reason people steal. They wish to have something of value
which they did not earn.

While they may have devalued military service in general and heroism
in particular they believe as well that they accrue some benefit by
claiming exceptional combat valor, courage and credentials.

Possibly, but bull****ters are more driven by the risk and the
desire to see if they can get away with it. Harry Frankfurt's "On
Bull****" has good insight. (It's a nice read.) Originally
published as an essay in Raritan, it is a book now. About $5 used
on Amazon.

Know your enemy


Peter Skelton

On Aug 23, 9:31�am, Ed Rasimus wrote:
Personally I still lean toward cutting off their buttons, ripping
their epaulets, breaking their saber over my knee and tossing them out
the gate...but that's just me.

1. They have NO buttons, epaulets or saber.
2. They'd probably get a similar perverse thrill out of the ceremony.

A pie in the face is more like it.

On Aug 23, 8:55*am, tomcervo wrote:
On Aug 23, 9:31 am, Ed Rasimus wrote:

Personally I still lean toward cutting off their buttons, ripping
their epaulets, breaking their saber over my knee and tossing them out
the gate...but that's just me.

1. They have NO buttons, epaulets or saber.
2. They'd probably get a similar perverse thrill out of the ceremony.

A pie in the face is more like it.

I rather like the taken away in handcuffs by the local sheriff on the
front page of the paper. In small towns, that's the kiss of death.

If you ever google the guy that will show up in the local paper
section for a long, long time.

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:24:40 -0700 (PDT), frank
wrote:

I rather like the taken away in handcuffs by the local sheriff on the
front page of the paper. In small towns, that's the kiss of death.

If you ever google the guy that will show up in the local paper
section for a long, long time.

I'm not so sure about that.

My mother was killed in a rather spectacular car crash in January 2005
and there were zillions of Google hits at the time. I was interviewed
by 3 reporters that week and I can assure you that it was no picnic.
(They were fair and I knew they were doing their job but still...)

I checked about two weeks ago and nada.

So don't make that assumption - I'm assuming by "for a long, long
time" you mean longer than 3 1/2 years...

"The Horny Goat" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:24:40 -0700 (PDT), frank
wrote:

I rather like the taken away in handcuffs by the local sheriff on the
front page of the paper. In small towns, that's the kiss of death.

If you ever google the guy that will show up in the local paper
section for a long, long time.

I'm not so sure about that.

My mother was killed in a rather spectacular car crash in January 2005
and there were zillions of Google hits at the time. I was interviewed
by 3 reporters that week and I can assure you that it was no picnic.
(They were fair and I knew they were doing their job but still...)


Geeze. I'm sorry ... I don't know what else to say ...

- nilita

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:19:47 GMT, "La N"
wrote:

I'm not so sure about that.

My mother was killed in a rather spectacular car crash in January 2005
and there were zillions of Google hits at the time. I was interviewed
by 3 reporters that week and I can assure you that it was no picnic.
(They were fair and I knew they were doing their job but still...)


Geeze. I'm sorry ... I don't know what else to say ...

No problem - it's old news now.

After 3 1/2 years you either have to deal with it or blow one's
friggin' brains out.

I'm sorry she won't be there for my eldest's college graduation next
year but one goes on. One simply has to.

My point though stands - her passing was rather spectacular and got
quite a lot of press coverage which was reflected in Google.

Now - nada.

So don't count on news stories of yesteryear staying on line forever.

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:42:44 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

Chuck and Mary Shantag, mentioned in the original post, are the
premier sleuths in digging up the facts on these folks. The poseurs
and wannabes are despicable and should be prosecuted to the maximum
extent of the law. Chuck and Mary do a great job of that. They come to
the annual River Rats reunions and are well supported by all of us.
You miss my point.

1. Why do the fakers do it?

For the same reason people steal. They wish to have something of value
which they did not earn.

While they may have devalued military service in general and heroism
in particular they believe as well that they accrue some benefit by
claiming exceptional combat valor, courage and credentials.
2. Why do people like the Shantags spend their lives looking for them?

While there may be some false glamour is the pretence it's surely only a
matter of time before they're exposed, and as for chasing them, don't
these people have a life? If you want to spend your time doing good works I
can think of several that are more rewarding.

Chuck is a retired Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam
experience. They got involved with the search for POW verifications
and became very active in the POW/MIA activities. Gradually they
drifted into the Stolen Valor research and have built a network of
sources that make them the recognized US experts in the business.

There is no money in it, obviously, but there is a deep sense of
satisfaction. Bringing these creeps to justice isn't quite as visceral
as punching their lights out, but it can be more effective in
derailing them in the long run.

Personally I still lean toward cutting off their buttons, ripping
their epaulets, breaking their saber over my knee and tossing them out
the gate...but that's just me.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
www.thunderchief.org


I make a distinction between the guys who do it for fun like the
comedian Gallagher who used the line "I lost my hair in Viet Nam" and
the jerks who expect one to believe their stories for some sort of
personal gain.

Several years ago I came across a photograph of a man in USMC field
grade mess dress uniform being handcuffed and led away. I was disturbed
at the idea, but even more so when I found out he had been arrested for
impersonation.

I am not against selling or trading awards and decorations since
there are collectors out there, myself included. The Stolen Valour Act
means I can't sell or trade the Medal of Honour ribbon in my collection
and that I will never fill the blanks for the medals themselves. I do
understand why that part of the act was put in and feel that anyone
falsely claiming the award should be run through a virtual wood chipper.

Anyway, there I wuz in Pusan 1950 where I was a combat assault cook
making coffee in cubes......

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired