Mode S transponder display to ATC?

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...

Sam,

Not in the U.S.


Source? A source that shows a Garmin GTX330 does not transmit flight ID
data in the US would suffice.


If a tree falls in the woods, but nobody is there to hear it, does it
make a sound?

Good way to put it.

Plus, in the high end gear, the Mode S message data can be implemented in
stages.

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't think you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs will be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

On 2008-09-08, Peter wrote:
Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

1090ES is one of two US ADS-B standards; the other is a standalone
transmitter. I was unaware the GTX330 would do 1090ES. If it does, I'm going
to be very happy indeed, as I'd been thinking the extra $2500 or so I spent
on mine was going to be largely wasted. The common wisdom here is that
1090ES is going to be mostly used by the big iron.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

On Sep 8, 12:19*pm, Peter wrote:
Jay Maynard wrote

On 2008-09-08, Peter wrote:
Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

1090ES is one of two US ADS-B standards; the other is a standalone
transmitter. I was unaware the GTX330 would do 1090ES. If it does, I'm going
to be very happy indeed, as I'd been thinking the extra $2500 or so I spent
on mine was going to be largely wasted. The common wisdom here is that
1090ES is going to be mostly used by the big iron.

I am really not up to date on this (no immediate need to know) but
AIUI the GTX330 will radiate anything and everything presented to it
via its RS232 or ARINC inputs and this means that if you install a
GTX330 and feed it with the normal ex-NMEA data, it will radiate the
whole lot. Airliners everywhere radiate the whole lot, as a result of
being Enhanced Mode S (250kt TAS, 5700kg I think).

So that takes care of the transmitting bit.

Does the GTX330 also *receive* the 1090ES data? I believe so. I do
have the installation manual, though not to hand.

I think as things currently stand you have to purchase Garmin's GDL90
to receive.

On 2008-09-08, paul kgyy wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:19*pm, Peter wrote:
Does the GTX330 also *receive* the 1090ES data? I believe so. I do
have the installation manual, though not to hand.
I think as things currently stand you have to purchase Garmin's GDL90
to receive.

A Google turns up a PowerPoint from Garmin that the GTX330ES will be
available in the fourth quarter this year, and will talk to the GNS430W/530W
and GNS480 for 1090ES data. It doesn't say if it'll do ADS-B In from 1090ES,
but since it already does mode S uplink (for TIS, at least, in the US), I
would expect that it does. The existing GTX330 fleet, according to that
presentation, will be upgradeable to the ES version for $1200. I couldn't
tell if the GNS430W would also need an upgrade.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

On Sep 8, 12:40*pm, Peter wrote:
"Mike" wrote
[...] as the ADS-B UATs will be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz [...]

Both (1090 and UAT).

Regards,
Jon

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

The capstone project in Alaska implemented it with UATs and I'm pretty sure
that's the way it's currently being implemented on the east coast working
its way west. As far as extended squitter goes, I know at one time that was
the plan for the airlines because they had already made a large capital
investment in it. I'm not really sure what progress has been made on that
front.


AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

On Sep 8, 9:54*pm, "Mike" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message

...



"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. *For GA, I don't think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Indeed. You won't get Mode S on the UAT link. Two completely different
schemes.

As far as providing other services (ok, "features" , I believe one
of the things they are looking at, is taking ADS-B In to drive a TCAS
display (ADS-B is *not* currently certified for collision avoidance).

Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

The capstone project in Alaska implemented it with UATs and I'm pretty sure
that's the way it's currently being implemented on the east coast working
its way west. *

As far as extended squitter goes, I know at one time that was
the plan for the airlines because they had already made a large capital
investment in it. *

Pretty much. Have to be compatible with and continue to support that
big installed base if you want a prayer of it being accepted/adopted.

I'm not really sure what progress has been made on that
front.



AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.

1090 only gives you TIS. UAT adds FIS (Weather, NOTAMs).

On 2008-09-09, Jon wrote:
1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.

A GTX330 doesn't exactly imply "deep pockets". Wasn't a UAT estimated to
cost several thousand bucks?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-09, Jon wrote:
1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.

A GTX330 doesn't exactly imply "deep pockets". Wasn't a UAT estimated to
cost several thousand bucks?

It's going to run you considerably north of $10K for a full certified
installation and somewhat less if you already have a MFD.

On 2008-09-09, Mike wrote:
"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-09, Jon wrote:
1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.
A GTX330 doesn't exactly imply "deep pockets". Wasn't a UAT estimated to
cost several thousand bucks?
It's going to run you considerably north of $10K for a full certified
installation and somewhat less if you already have a MFD.

Hardly. My airplane already has a GTX330 and a GNS430W. Garmin says that
they'll implement ADS-B on those two boxes; the GTX330 will require a $1200
upgrade, but the PowerPoint I saw was unclear on what the GNS430W would
need.

I doubt that a UAT will be that inexpensive; there's also the minor problem
of needing panel space for it, something that's in short supply in my
airplane.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC