Russian Tu-160 Blackjack bombers land in Venezuela - Peter the Greatnuclear-powered heavy missile cruiser and battle group on the way

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:21:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sep 10, 7:16*pm, TJ wrote:
On 10 Sep, 22:27, AirRaid wrote:





Two Russian Tu-160 strategic bombers land in Venezuela, nuclear battle
cruiser on way

September 10, 2008, 9:57 PM (GMT+02:00)

The Russian defense ministry said the Tu-160 nuclear-capable, multi-
mission bombers (NATO-coded Blackjack) arrived Wednesday Sept. 10 at a
Venezuelan air base to take part in joint military exercises along
with a Russian flotilla.

DEBKAfile’s military sources first disclosed on Sept. 9, that the
nuclear maritime reconnaissance/anti-submarine warfare turboprop
TU-142 (NATO coded Bear F, or Bear J), which can fly 6,500 km, i.e.
from Venezuela to the US coast, will also be based at a Venezuelan
military airfield.

Caracas announced that four Russian ships with almost 1,000 sailors
aboard would join its navy for maneuvers on November 10-14.

Like the Russian air contingent, the Russian flotilla is also bigger
and more formidable than Russian and Venezuelan spokesmen have
indicated.

According to DEBKAfile’s military sources, it consists of six to eight
vessels, led by the Kirov Class (Type 1144.2) Peter the Great nuclear-
powered heavy missile cruiser, one of the largest warships in the
world, which is designed to guard the rest of the group against
submarine and air attack.

It is armed with the Granit (NATO designated SS-N-19 Shipwreck) long
range, anti-ship missile system, consisting of 20 missiles. If the
lead missile is intercepted, one of the others moves into the lead
role.

Peter the Great is also equipped with 40 S-300F air defense missiles.

Other ships in the Russian flotilla are the Admiral Chabanenko , the
Russian navy’s most advanced guided missile anti-submarine battleship,
and the guided nuclear missile cruiser Pyotr Velikiy . They are
escorted by five smaller warships and a fuel vessel.

DEBKAfile’s military experts deduce from the makeup of the Russian
group that, while it is being presented as primarily defensive, in
fact it is the core infrastructure of an important Russian air and
fleet presence for shielding a potential assault deployment in the
event of a Kremlin decision to base one in Venezuela.

http://debka.com/headline.php?hid=5570

I'd like to see the U.S. send a full sized battle group to the
region, *base 2 to 4 B-1B Lancer strategic bombers in a friendly South
American country and have a B-2 from Whiteman AFB fly over both the
base where the TU-160s are and the Russian ships.

Russians need to be kept in check without escalating things too far.
Ronald Reagan would not have tolerated this behavior from the Soviets
during the 80s, without an American response. * The people in charge
of George W. Bush need to show some balls and confront the Russians
anytime, anywhere. On land, at sea, in the air.

Huh? They are flying in international airspace and operating in
international waters. It isn't illegal. The Soviets used to deploy and
operate out of Cuba in the 70s and 80s. Where was the U.S. response to
that?

It is no different to the U.S. deploying heavy strategic bombers to
Europe. Only a few weeks ago there was routine B-2 and B-52
deployments to the UK.

TJ


It seems to me the Russians have the most to lose here. If they
suffer a major breakdown, etc they're not going to look very
threatening.

If they have a major breakdown, the paranoid nutcases will decide
it's an excuse to hang around and immendiately **** themselves.
Then they'll demand God knows what to protect us from nothing.

Threat is in the eye of thr beholder, does not need any truth at
all behind it. Look at the Iraq situation.



Peter Skelton

This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise, it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

Rob

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt
wrote:

This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise, it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

On Sep 11, 7:24*am, Bill Kambic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt

wrote:
This is only news if the West chooses to make it *news; otherwise, it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. *If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

Yes, think of grandpop back in the 1890s, pulling his old uniform out
of the trunk, brushing it off and wearing it into town on the Fourth
of July.

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...
On Sep 11, 7:24 am, Bill Kambic wrote:
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt

wrote:
This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise, it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

Yes, think of grandpop back in the 1890s, pulling his old uniform out
of the trunk, brushing it off and wearing it into town on the Fourth
of July.

-----------------------

Or, more to the point, the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida men are
being treated today.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Sep 11, 10:36*am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 7:24 am, Bill Kambic wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt

wrote:
This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise, it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

Yes, think of grandpop back in the 1890s, pulling his old uniform out
of the trunk, brushing it off and wearing it into town on the Fourth
of July.

-----------------------

Or, *more to the point, *the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida men are
being treated today.

--
William Black


Deservedly so. Actually, al Qaeda guys at least have the
possibility of a trial.

On Sep 11, 10:47*am, " wrote:
On Sep 11, 10:36*am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

....
On Sep 11, 7:24 am, Bill Kambic wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt

wrote:
This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise, it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

Yes, think of grandpop back in the 1890s, pulling his old uniform out
of the trunk, brushing it off and wearing it into town on the Fourth
of July.

-----------------------

Or, *more to the point, *the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida men are
being treated today.

--
William Black

* * * *Deservedly so. Actually, al Qaeda guys at least have the
possibility of a trial.

I will say that my grandparents and great grandparents lived for a
while in Jamesport Missouri. I think they would not share your opinion
of the fake colonel. He claimed he got a colonelcy in Richmond but no
one else knew about it.

Or, *more to the point, *the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida men are
being treated today.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, *like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

When KU comes to play The University of Missouri in football, there
are signs in town that say 'Burn Lawrence'. Only recently were the
Confederate flags banished from the football sidelines.

"frank" wrote in message
...


Or, more to the point, the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence
Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida men
are
being treated today.


When KU comes to play The University of Missouri in football, there
are signs in town that say 'Burn Lawrence'. Only recently were the
Confederate flags banished from the football sidelines.

--------------------------------

The level of bitterness in that particular part of the American Civil War
was dreadful.

Interestingly very few of the people on either side were either
abolitionists or slave owners.

Of course some, like 'Doc Jennison', were just crooks out to line their
own nests, and some, like Anderson and his ghastly associate Archie
Clement, were probably psychopathic.

But the majority of the men involved on both side of that part of the
conflict seem to have settled down after the war, with a few obvious
exceptions like the members of the James Gang and the Younger Brothers...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Sep 11, 11:48*am, frank wrote:
Or, *more to the point, *the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida men are
being treated today.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, *like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

When KU comes to play The University of Missouri in football, there
are signs in town that say 'Burn Lawrence'. Only recently were the
Confederate flags banished from the football sidelines.

That's because they are winning games, I was there when a 15-13 win
over KU was the equivalent of a Orange Bowl win.