asymetric warfare

Damo wrote:

A civilian is making a cruise missile in his garage in New Zealand for
less
then 5000 dollars.

He has apparently been thwarted by his own government, although his news
page isn't terribly clear:

http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/

Quite frankly, I'm not terribly impressed with his comments; he
half-invokes conspiracy theory arguments which one hardly would need to
consider. It's common sense that, hey, you're probably violating about
a thousand different regulations with the project; the government would
have to be completely stupid not to take interest in stopping the
project for any number of common sense reasons.

--
__ Erik Max Francis && && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ When angry, count four; when very angry, swear.
-- Mark Twain

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:56:36 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:
Damo wrote:

A civilian is making a cruise missile in his garage in New Zealand for
less
then 5000 dollars.

He has apparently been thwarted by his own government, although his news
page isn't terribly clear:

http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/

Quite frankly, I'm not terribly impressed with his comments;

He went to the NZ government before starting the project, told him
what he was about to do, and they told him it was legal. Then a few
months later, they shut him down by making him bankrupt.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

ess (phil hunt) wrote:
He went to the NZ government before starting the project, told him
what he was about to do, and they told him it was legal.

That's not entirely clear, and he somewhat obfuscates the issue. It
appears that what happened is he told the goverment he was going to
sell pulsejet technology, and *that* is what they told him was legal,
not the cruise missile project.

Then a few months later, they shut him down by making him bankrupt.

Another half truth, though I don't know if it's you, or you parroting
his half truths. They collected a judgement against him for failing
to pay his taxes.

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:56:36 -0800, Erik Max Francis
wrote:

Damo wrote:

A civilian is making a cruise missile in his garage in New Zealand for
less
then 5000 dollars.

He has apparently been thwarted by his own government, although his news
page isn't terribly clear:

http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/

Quite frankly, I'm not terribly impressed with his comments; he
half-invokes conspiracy theory arguments which one hardly would need to
consider. It's common sense that, hey, you're probably violating about
a thousand different regulations with the project; the government would
have to be completely stupid not to take interest in stopping the
project for any number of common sense reasons.

The government of New Zealand told him that he was breaking no laws
or regulations with his project; they are going after him for a tax
issue. Pretty much the same way Al Capone got nailed once the feds
realized they couldn't prove he was involved with any criminal
activity.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft

"Damo" wrote:

:
:" :If they can be mass-produced for $10,000 each, then a $1 bn
: rocurement -- and the sort of countries we're talking about
: :typically sign bigger weapons contracts than that -- would buy
: :100,000 missiles.
:
: I think you need to go look at this again. Hell, why not assume they
: cost $1 each and can be made by kindergardeners?
:
:A civilian is making a cruise missile in his garage in New Zealand for less
:then 5000 dollars.

I'll believe it when he gets it done, it has a usable warhead
fraction, and it works after being bounced around on roads (and off)
in the back of a truck for six months. And if it passes that, then
we'll talk about flight profiles, RCS, accuracy under GPS-jammed
conditions, etc.

Get back to me.

--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
"Damo" wrote:

:
:" :If they can be mass-produced for $10,000 each, then a $1 bn
: rocurement -- and the sort of countries we're talking about
: :typically sign bigger weapons contracts than that -- would buy
: :100,000 missiles.
:
: I think you need to go look at this again. Hell, why not assume they
: cost $1 each and can be made by kindergardeners?
:
:A civilian is making a cruise missile in his garage in New Zealand for
less
:then 5000 dollars.

I'll believe it when he gets it done, it has a usable warhead
fraction, and it works after being bounced around on roads (and off)
in the back of a truck for six months. And if it passes that, then
we'll talk about flight profiles, RCS, accuracy under GPS-jammed
conditions, etc.

Get back to me.

I wasnt pretending this was military grade weapon (the GPS component rules
that out straight away) but if someone told you this 10 years ago you would
write it off completely. With todays technology it is at least possible, and
for terrorists it doesnt have to meet your guidelines above - just hit
something in a city will do it.

Damo


--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

"Damo" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
.. .
: "Damo" wrote:
:
: :A civilian is making a cruise missile in his garage in New Zealand for less
: :then 5000 dollars.
:
: I'll believe it when he gets it done, it has a usable warhead
: fraction, and it works after being bounced around on roads (and off)
: in the back of a truck for six months. And if it passes that, then
: we'll talk about flight profiles, RCS, accuracy under GPS-jammed
: conditions, etc.
:
: Get back to me.
:
:I wasnt pretending this was military grade weapon (the GPS component rules
:that out straight away) but if someone told you this 10 years ago you would
:write it off completely.

Really? I find that quite odd, since I remember George talking about
how to build a rocket much more cheaply than we are STILL building
them and didn't "write it off completely". I'm pretty sure that was
more than 10 years ago. I do find the price tag pretty ludicrous,
given that you can't buy a car for that kind of money.

:With todays technology it is at least possible, and
:for terrorists it doesnt have to meet your guidelines above - just hit
:something in a city will do it.

Using mortars off the shelf is easier and cheaper if your only goal is
to lob some explosives into a city.

--
"Death is my gift." -- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer

"Damo" wrote:
A civilian is making a cruise missile in his garage in New Zealand for less
then 5000 dollars.

No, he's built, but not flown one prototype thats pretty much an
engine and crude guidance.

I dont have the web site but from memory it has a range
of 500k (?), accurate to about 10m (uses GPS which of course is not secure
in a war zone) and sends live TV feed back to base.

It's range, accuracy, and performance are unknown, the prototype has
never actually flown. The systems have never been integrated. (And
the author of the page is an enthusiastic player of his own music.)

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:36:14 +1000, "Damo"
wrote:

military weapon of course but indicates how far and cheap off-the-shelf
civilian technology can get you these days. Scary thought if some terrorists
were clever enough to come up with like this.

Given that the guy who built it admits he's not exactly a genius,
just a part time hobbyist; and that all this information is pretty
much common knowledge to anyone with a minimal amount of aeronautical
engineering education, it's a sure bet that any terrorist group who
wants this information already has it.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft