Instructor Effectiveness

On Sep 12, 3:31*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

It's important to note that not cursing at a student is not to be
misconstrued into meaning that an instructor is being "too nice".
The way this issue has been presented by the original poster would infer
that through the use of his description countering his argument in favor
of his personal method. Instructors NOT cursing at students are
absolutely NOT being "too nice" by NOT cursing at students! This premise
if assumed is false.

I've also had instructors and examiners who would hit you on the hand
or shoulder when they didn't like something you were doing. Aside from
rubbing close shoulders there is no reason to touch your students in
the cockpit.

-Robert, CFII

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Sep 12, 3:31 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

It's important to note that not cursing at a student is not to be
misconstrued into meaning that an instructor is being "too nice".
The way this issue has been presented by the original poster would infer
that through the use of his description countering his argument in favor
of his personal method. Instructors NOT cursing at students are
absolutely NOT being "too nice" by NOT cursing at students! This premise
if assumed is false.

I've also had instructors and examiners who would hit you on the hand
or shoulder when they didn't like something you were doing. Aside from
rubbing close shoulders there is no reason to touch your students in
the cockpit.

-Robert, CFII

I agree. My preferred method is to gauge the way I project with a
student based on my read on that specific student's ability to receive
what I'm projecting and the tone with which I'm projecting it.
This method of controlling "tone" is very important in the teaching
cockpit, as the "classroom" is moving and all instruction is being given
while this dynamic environment is on going.
It's fine to upscale the tone of a verbal exchange with a student to
stress necessity and/or a time constraint, but this raising of the
"tone" by the instructor should never in my opinion cross the line that
separates the need for action from abuse. Shouting and/or cursing at a
student in the cockpit in my opinion adds to the student's stress level
and degrades their performance.
What I'm stressing here is that not cursing at a student goes MUCH
further than the respect issue. It's actually a quality of instruction
issue and as such I place it high on the list of things that instructors
should learn to do correctly.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Sep 12, 5:01*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

What I'm stressing here is that not cursing at a student goes MUCH
further than the respect issue. It's actually a quality of instruction
issue and as such I place it high on the list of things that instructors
should learn to do correctly.

Generally agreed, but I would argue that you can't have quality of
instruction without respect.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:01 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

What I'm stressing here is that not cursing at a student goes MUCH
further than the respect issue. It's actually a quality of instruction
issue and as such I place it high on the list of things that instructors
should learn to do correctly.

Generally agreed, but I would argue that you can't have quality of
instruction without respect.

-Robert

I agree, and I would counter that you don't have to shout or curse at a
student to gain that respect. In fact, with most students, that is
EXACTLY the fastest way to LOSE that respect.
Most students want their instructors to be thorough, concise,
knowledgeable, friendly, and above all, professional at all times.
Achieving this relationship with a student can easily be done without
being a "pussy", while on the other hand, shouting and cursing at a
student negates enough of the prime good teaching requisites I've
mentioned to eliminate these two factors from any competent instruction
method and classify them as a negative.

--
Dudley Henriques

On 2008-09-13, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Most students want their instructors to be thorough, concise,
knowledgeable, friendly, and above all, professional at all times.

Indeed. Part of that is that the student should feel that the instructor is
competent to keep him out of trouble even if he screws up pretty badly, and
losing your cool is a good way to destroy that confidence. As I begin my
studies toward the CFI-SP rating, I do plan to keep that in mind. Sorry,
but whoever it is that says that cussing at a student is effective does not
have me as an adherent.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

On Sep 12, 5:17*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I agree, and I would counter that you don't have to shout or curse at a
student to gain that respect. In fact, with most students, that is
EXACTLY the fastest way to LOSE that respect.

Exactly. If the CFI knows what he's doing he would be in control of
the situation well enough to not need to shout and curse.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:17 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I agree, and I would counter that you don't have to shout or curse at a
student to gain that respect. In fact, with most students, that is
EXACTLY the fastest way to LOSE that respect.

Exactly. If the CFI knows what he's doing he would be in control of
the situation well enough to not need to shout and curse.

-Robert

Many, (all too many in fact) instructors make the HUGE mistake of
projecting right from the beginning, the exact opposite of what they
should be projecting to a new student. Through their actions, their
verbal expression, and their general attitude, they convey to a student
how well THEY can fly the airplane and how much THEY know about flying.
This attitude in many cases shows up in the cockpit as an aura of "I'M
in command here. If you do EXACTLY as I say, I'll allow you to learn
from me. If not, you can bet your ass you'll hear about it!!!"

The exact opposite is the "aura" the instructor should be projecting to
a student. You don't have to constantly make the student aware of how
superior YOU are. They already assume that or they wouldn't have gotten
in the airplane with you. What's needed is the creation of a calm but
professional projection to the student that is designed from the very
beginning to allow the student to mentally project that flying the
airplane is within THEIR reach, and that YOU as the instructor, are
there to help them reach that goal.

Instructors need to spend more time building confidence in students
instead of raising their voices at them. ANY raising of an instructor's
voice instills fear and apprehension in a student. It conveys to them
that something is VERY wrong, either with the aircraft, or with
something they are doing with the aircraft.It's very bad policy and
detracts from the value of the lesson.
I've started every primary student who has climbed into an airplane with
me with the same approach. In a calm quiet voice I explain to them as we
walk out to the airplane that flying is not all that hard. I'll be
letting them take the controls from the very beginning and that they are
NOT to worry because no matter what they do I won't allow them to hurt
either us or the airplane.

Once an instructor reaches the point with a student where they feel
relaxed and safe, confidence begins to build and real learning becomes
possible. All shouting and cursing at a student does is delay that
necessary point from happening.



--
Dudley Henriques

On Sep 13, 8:55*am, Dudley Henriques wrote:


The exact opposite is the "aura" the instructor should be projecting to
a student. You don't have to constantly make the student aware of how
superior YOU are. They already assume that or they wouldn't have gotten
in the airplane with you.

Its funny but people just assume you must he a "super pilot" if you
are a CFI. I guess to the student pilot a CFI seems like Yeager. I can
say that I've never felt like a student needed me to "prove" my flying
ability. I can see how some CFIs could get a big head because of all
this. However, all it takes is to sit in the left seat with good CFI
to break you back down.
This is also where decision making starts. Because a student usually
looks up to his first CFI he will tend to emmulate your decision
making. The CFI who likes to buzz farm houses will have a student who
thinks that once he's a good pilot he should start buzzing farm
houses. I just can't say enough about the importance of being
professional. If you act like a true professional in the cockpit you
will have students who believe that they need to be professional in
the cockpit.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote
On Sep 12, 5:17*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I agree, and I would counter that you don't have to shout or curse at a
student to gain that respect. In fact, with most students, that is
EXACTLY the fastest way to LOSE that respect.

Exactly. If the CFI knows what he's doing he would be in control of
the situation well enough to not need to shout and curse.

I suspect that Rocky and I would make great friends as I and probably most
of his students understand where he is coming from...an ex-Marine D.I.

His students have most likely been exposed to the DI act somewhere in their
officer training as I was. As we did, they probably gather over a beer in
the evening and brag about who was able to rankle Rocky the most.

My old Pre-Flight DI wasn't near as tough as he thought he was. Navy regs
prohibited him from swearing at the future officers. This effectively
destroyed much of the DI act. And....as far as the fight scene in "An
Officer and a Gentleman" between the cadet and the DI....could not have
possibly happened.

However Rocky....It appears as if you have been severely out voted on the
language issue.

Bob Moore

On Sep 13, 11:58*am, Robert Moore wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" *wrote

On Sep 12, 5:17*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I agree, and I would counter that you don't have to shout or curse at a
student to gain that respect. In fact, with most students, that is
EXACTLY the fastest way to LOSE that respect.

Exactly. If the CFI knows what he's doing he would be in control of
the situation well enough to not need to shout and curse.

I suspect that Rocky and I would make great friends as I and probably most
of his students understand where he is coming from...an ex-Marine D.I.

His students have most likely been exposed to the DI act somewhere in their
officer training as I was. *As we did, they probably gather over a beer in
the evening and brag about who was able to rankle Rocky the most.

My old Pre-Flight DI wasn't near as tough as he thought he was. Navy regs
prohibited him from swearing at the future officers. This effectively
destroyed much of the DI act. *And....as far as the fight scene in "An
Officer and a Gentleman" between the cadet and the DI....could not have
possibly happened.

However Rocky....It appears as if you have been severely out voted on the
language issue. * *

Bob Moore

Bob
Yeh it would appear that way. I query students about it from time to
time to see if it is hurting effectivness and for the most part they
are positive towards my techniques. But, and this is the really odd
part, other CFI's try it and get slammed hard in critiques! From time
to time I'll not use even a hint of profanity and rely on well
educated use of the english language. Doesn't seem to work nearly as
well for me.
I have been, and always will be I suppose, very cognizant of profanity
with female students until they outswear me. I really do try to keep
it from getting overboard. I recall a helicopter instructor of mine
back in the 60's who could not speak a simple sentence without
profanity. I discovered I was counting his curse words rather than
getting benefit of instruction. This was after I had 4-5000 hours so
it wasn't as if I was a rank new guy. When I talked to him about it,
he reply was "No ****?" GGGGG
I'm glad to see this post has generated so much discussion. Most of
the time I try to create a subject line that will draw out the pros
for everyones benefit.
Best Professional Regards to you all
Rocky