Crab, slips, and crossed controls

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:10:50 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote
Sideslips are a very useful tool because they allow you to
substantially increase the drag, which makes you descent like a
plumbers toolbag, but doesnt change the forward speed. so you have no
increased risk of stalling as you wash off the height.

What you have described is the "forward slip". Although control usage
is the same in both, a "side slip" is used to correct for a crosswind,
and a "forward slip" is used to descend more rapidly on final without
having the airspeed increase. If one is not landing, I suppose that it
would just be a "slip".

Airliners normally do not use either because of the increased discomfort
caused the passengers....both being uncoordinated flight.

Amine wrote:
PS: I have read about many cases of jetliners that had to make
emergency descents at abnormally high speeds, but the AC143 seems the
only one to have used the sideslip.

AC 143 was constrained by "touchdown speed" runway length. An "emergency
descent" has no such constraint and therefore is able to use the
aircraft's maximum certificated speed for the descent...far in excess of
what would be possible in an approach/landing situation.

In an engine failure situation, keep it as high as possible for as long
as possible to insure that the field can be reached, and then slip as
much as required to lose the excess altitude without gaining airspeed.

Bob Moore
Flight Instructor ASE-IA
ATP B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on the
ground. The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a
direct forward path to the end of the runway. This is accomplished by
lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same time. The nose of the
aircraft is to the left or right of the runway heading but the flight path
is directly forward toward the runway. The primary use of this slip is to
lose altitude without increasing airspeed and also to allow a view of the
runway if the front windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. The side
slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path .
This is accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose of
the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. In a no-wind situation the
aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway centerline depending
on which wing is lowered. The primary use of this slip is to counteract
side drift in a crosswind landing and allow the aircraft to touchdown
parallel to the runway centerline.

--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:27:29 -0500, "Allen"
wrote:



in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on the
ground. The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a
direct forward path to the end of the runway. This is accomplished by
lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same time. The nose of the
aircraft is to the left or right of the runway heading but the flight path
is directly forward toward the runway. The primary use of this slip is to
lose altitude without increasing airspeed and also to allow a view of the
runway if the front windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. The side
slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path .
This is accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose of
the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. In a no-wind situation the
aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway centerline depending
on which wing is lowered. The primary use of this slip is to counteract
side drift in a crosswind landing and allow the aircraft to touchdown
parallel to the runway centerline.


why on earth are you lecturing me about slips?
I use them as a convenience whenever I feel the need.

in my country they are known only as side slips because the control
inputs are pretty well the same and you can make them point in pretty
well any direction from side ways to forwards.

it is only in america where you make the artificial distinction
between forward and sideways slips.

to my mind it is as much of a nonsense as the way you spell aeroplane.
ymmv
Stealth Pilot

On Sep 27, 10:19*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:27:29 -0500, "Allen"
wrote:





in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on the
ground. *The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a
direct forward path to the end of the runway. *This is accomplished by
lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same time. *The nose of the
aircraft is to the left or right of the runway heading but the flight path
is directly forward toward the runway. *The primary use of this slip is to
lose altitude without increasing airspeed and also to allow a view of the
runway if the front windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. *The side
slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path ..
This is accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose of
the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. *In a no-wind situation the
aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway centerline depending
on which wing is lowered. *The primary use of this slip is to counteract
side drift in a crosswind landing and allow the aircraft to touchdown
parallel to the runway centerline.

why on earth are you lecturing me about slips?
I use them as a convenience whenever I feel the need.

in my country they are known only as side slips because the control
inputs are pretty well the same and you can make them point in pretty
well any direction from side ways to forwards.

it is only in america where you make the artificial distinction
between forward and sideways slips.

to my mind it is as much of a nonsense as the way you spell aeroplane.
ymmv
Stealth Pilot

In both cases the pilot is presenting the side of the airplane to the
wind. The nonsense has everything to do with the track of the axis of
the airplane over the ground, doesn't it? If the axis points to the
direction of travel over the ground, as we would like in landing,
that's a slip of one flavor, if it doesn't, it's a different flavor. I
think the landing slip is a little more difficult since the reference
is different, but even then, many pilots kick the airplane to track
the centerline at the last moment.

If I need to come down fast I just ram in a foot-full of rudder
(Mooneys do not have a lot of rudder authority) and buy the tracking I
need with the yoke. It's fairly easy to track along the runway
centerline if I use that as a reference, and just never bother saying
gee, this is a slide slip, now let's change it to a forward one. In
all cases it's just flying the airplane (and unless an unexpected
change in landing clearance had been issued by the tower) cursing a
little because I put myself a bit too high or too hot to get to where
I want to be in a coordinated way. That is bad piloting.

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:27:29 -0500, "Allen"
wrote:



in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on
the ground. The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway,
creates a direct forward path to the end of the runway. This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same time.
The nose of the aircraft is to the left or right of the runway heading
but the flight path is directly forward toward the runway. The
primary use of this slip is to lose altitude without increasing
airspeed and also to allow a view of the runway if the front
windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. The side slip, when used in
relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path . This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose of
the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. In a no-wind situation
the aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway centerline
depending on which wing is lowered. The primary use of this slip is
to counteract side drift in a crosswind landing and allow the aircraft
to touchdown parallel to the runway centerline.


why on earth are you lecturing me about slips?
I use them as a convenience whenever I feel the need.

in my country they are known only as side slips because the control
inputs are pretty well the same and you can make them point in pretty
well any direction from side ways to forwards.

it is only in america where you make the artificial distinction
between forward and sideways slips.

to my mind it is as much of a nonsense as the way you spell aeroplane.
ymmv


Americnas get to choose the spelling cuz they invented it!

Much in the same way as you guys invented the rotary washing line and
the....



What else?



Bertie

On Sep 27, 12:07*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Stealth Pilot wrote :



On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:27:29 -0500, "Allen"
wrote:

in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on
the ground. *The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway,
creates a direct forward path to the end of the runway. *This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same time.
The nose of the aircraft is to the left or right of the runway heading
but the flight path is directly forward toward the runway. *The
primary use of this slip is to lose altitude without increasing
airspeed and also to allow a view of the runway if the front
windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. *The side slip, when used in
relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path . This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose of
the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. *In a no-wind situation
the aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway centerline
depending on which wing is lowered. *The primary use of this slip is
to counteract side drift in a crosswind landing and allow the aircraft
to touchdown parallel to the runway centerline.

why on earth are you lecturing me about slips?
I use them as a convenience whenever I feel the need.

in my country they are known only as side slips because the control
inputs are pretty well the same and you can make them point in pretty
well any direction from side ways to forwards.

it is only in america where you make the artificial distinction
between forward and sideways slips.

to my mind it is as much of a nonsense as the way you spell aeroplane.
ymmv

Americnas get to choose the spelling cuz they invented it!

Much in the same way as you guys invented the rotary washing line and
the....

What else?

Bertie

black boxes come to mind, so do car radios.

wrote in
:

On Sep 27, 12:07*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Stealth Pilot wrote
innews:fsfsd4hmkhnk
:



On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:27:29 -0500, "Allen"
wrote:

in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side
slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach
is preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on
the ground. *The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway,
creates a direct forward path to the end of the runway. *This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same
time. The nose of the aircraft is to the left or right of the
runway heading but the flight path is directly forward toward the
runway. *The primary use of this slip is to lose altitude without
increasing airspeed and also to allow a view of the runway if the
front windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. *The side slip,
when used i
n
relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path . This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose
of the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. *In a no-wind
situatio
n
the aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway
centerline depending on which wing is lowered. *The primary use of
this slip is to counteract side drift in a crosswind landing and
allow the aircraft to touchdown parallel to the runway centerline.

why on earth are you lecturing me about slips?
I use them as a convenience whenever I feel the need.

in my country they are known only as side slips because the control
inputs are pretty well the same and you can make them point in
pretty well any direction from side ways to forwards.

it is only in america where you make the artificial distinction
between forward and sideways slips.

to my mind it is as much of a nonsense as the way you spell
aeroplane. ymmv

Americnas get to choose the spelling cuz they invented it!

Much in the same way as you guys invented the rotary washing line and
the....

What else?

Bertie

black boxes come to mind, so do car radios.


Painting a cornflakes box black and sticking a wireless on a holden
doesnt count!



Bertie

On Sep 27, 2:22*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote :



On Sep 27, 12:07*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Stealth Pilot wrote
innews:fsfsd4hmkhnk
:

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:27:29 -0500, "Allen"
wrote:

in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side
slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach
is preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on
the ground. *The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway,
creates a direct forward path to the end of the runway. *This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same
time. The nose of the aircraft is to the left or right of the
runway heading but the flight path is directly forward toward the
runway. *The primary use of this slip is to lose altitude without
increasing airspeed and also to allow a view of the runway if the
front windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. *The side slip,
when used i
n
relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path . This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose
of the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. *In a no-wind
situatio
n
the aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway
centerline depending on which wing is lowered. *The primary use of
this slip is to counteract side drift in a crosswind landing and
allow the aircraft to touchdown parallel to the runway centerline.

why on earth are you lecturing me about slips?
I use them as a convenience whenever I feel the need.

in my country they are known only as side slips because the control
inputs are pretty well the same and you can make them point in
pretty well any direction from side ways to forwards.

it is only in america where you make the artificial distinction
between forward and sideways slips.

to my mind it is as much of a nonsense as the way you spell
aeroplane. ymmv

Americnas get to choose the spelling cuz they invented it!

Much in the same way as you guys invented the rotary washing line and
the....

What else?

Bertie

black boxes come to mind, so do car radios.

Painting a cornflakes box black and sticking a wireless on a holden
doesnt count!

Bertie

You count your way, the Aussies count theirs. They were inventive
enough to take the America's Cup from us, and keep if for a couple of
cycles. They are not on a per capital basis as strong as Israel, but
they are not doing badly. Hell, they invented Great White Sharks and
Waltzing Matildas and the digery do. Those are major contributions to
world cultures.

wrote in
:

On Sep 27, 2:22*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote
innews:16a34e14-ab8e-4397-804d-4f9547b0090c@34g
2000hsh.googlegroups.com:



On Sep 27, 12:07*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Stealth Pilot wrote
innews:fsfsd4hmkhnk
:

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:27:29 -0500, "Allen"
wrote:

in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side
slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed
approach is preferred because it doesnt change the approach
profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point
on the ground. *The forward slip, when used in relation to a
runway, creates a direct forward path to the end of the runway.
*This is accomplished by lowering a wing and opposite rudder at
the same time. The nose of the aircraft is to the left or right
of the runway heading but the flight path is directly forward
toward the runway. *The primary use of this slip is to lose
altitude without increasing airspeed and also to allow a view of
the runway if the front windshield is obstructed with ice or
oil. *The side slip, when used i
n
relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path . This is
accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the
nose of the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. *In a
no-wind situatio
n
the aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway
centerline depending on which wing is lowered. *The primary use
of this slip is to counteract side drift in a crosswind landing
and allow the aircraft to touchdown parallel to the runway
centerline.

why on earth are you lecturing me about slips?
I use them as a convenience whenever I feel the need.

in my country they are known only as side slips because the
control inputs are pretty well the same and you can make them
point in pretty well any direction from side ways to forwards.

it is only in america where you make the artificial distinction
between forward and sideways slips.

to my mind it is as much of a nonsense as the way you spell
aeroplane. ymmv

Americnas get to choose the spelling cuz they invented it!

Much in the same way as you guys invented the rotary washing line
and the....

What else?

Bertie

black boxes come to mind, so do car radios.

Painting a cornflakes box black and sticking a wireless on a holden
doesnt count!

Bertie

You count your way, the Aussies count theirs. They were inventive
enough to take the America's Cup from us, and keep if for a couple of
cycles. They are not on a per capital basis as strong as Israel, but
they are not doing badly. Hell, they invented Great White Sharks and
Waltzing Matildas and the digery do. Those are major contributions to
world cultures.


No argument there. They've even perfected the vomitorium!


Bertie