Club Class vs. Sports Class

Just to throw my 2 cents into this debate...

I come at this as a former US Club Class Team member who owns a club
class glider and loves the club class concept BUT one that has put
himself on the "Black List" of pilots banned from competing in Club
Class due to flying another WGC in a non-club, world, junior class. I
would definitely fly a Club Class event here in the US rather than a
Sports Class event at any level - it is fairer! Even more so at a Club
Class Nationals if I could get back on the team ;-(

Getting a US Club Class Nationals (integrated with US Sports Nats
which I support as a 1st step to possible independence of the class)
will allow people who fly club class ships the opportunity for fairer
racing amongst a smaller range of handicapped ships AND allow for
flying Assigned Tasks (AT's) like the rest of the classes here in the
US get to fly. Flying AT's is fun and really lets you measure your
skills on a fixed course on any particular day against the best pilots
who fly. I know that there are those who would ban all AT-type tasks
in the interest of safety, but they are fun AND the Club Class around
the world lets older gliders fly AT's whereas our Sports Class makes
this fairly impossible or extremely unfair to the "lower" performance
ships.

Getting to the Team topoic, one thing I beleive our club class team
members are missing from their experience when they go to Club Class
Worlds is that, coming out of the US Sports Class, many of them HAVE
NEVER FLOWN an Assigned Task in a club class ship in their qualifiying
for the team. And if they are a Sports Class only competitior having
flown contests only in Sports Class, they will NEVER have flown an AT
until they get sent on a 500km AT in the mountains of France with
thunderstorms likely (as was done in France 2006).

Getting competitive pilots on the US Club Class Team requires having
practice and experience at Club Class racing prior to getting
overseas. The only way this works is to enable Club Class pilots to be
better developed here at home. How we do this is to provide for Club
Class contests here at home. Whether or not they are integrated with
other classes at the national level or as a stand alone nationals is
irrelevant. The need for the class both to better develop our team
members AND to provide for better and fairer racing for all who wish
to should be the end goal here.

One additional thing that never gets said in this debate is that the
Ruels Committeee has no way of knowing what non-competition pilots
would be spurred into club class flying if the Club Class was added
tot he list of competing classes. If they send the SRA poll to
existent contest pilots only and you ask to add another class... well
then off course you are going to perceiving a further fracturing of
the currently existing base of contest pilots.

The question that needs to be asked and has never been fairly
addressed by the SRA poll is the following: If you are a glider pilot
having access to or flying a club class-type glider and do not
currently compete: Would the addition of Club Class events at the
regional and national level encourage you to get racing?

Get me a meaningful answer to that question and we may see that adding
Club Class may, in fact, expand the base of contest pilots and then
everyone wins. We just dont know and fears of "further dividing up"
the existing contest pilot population are unfounded until we get that
answer.

Tim McAllister EY

On Sep 24, 11:49*am, Tim wrote:
Just to throw my 2 cents into this debate...

I come at this as a former US Club Class Team member who owns a club
class glider and loves the club class concept BUT one that has put
himself on the "Black List" of pilots banned from competing in Club
Class due to flying another WGC in a non-club, world, junior class. I
would definitely fly a Club Class event here in the US rather than a
Sports Class event at any level - it is fairer! Even more so at a Club
Class Nationals if I could get back on the team ;-(

Getting a US Club Class Nationals (integrated with US Sports Nats
which I support as a 1st step to possible independence of the class)
will allow people who fly club class ships the opportunity for fairer
racing amongst a smaller range of handicapped ships AND allow for
flying Assigned Tasks (AT's) like the rest of the classes here in the
US get to fly. Flying AT's is fun and really lets you measure your
skills on a fixed course on any particular day against the best pilots
who fly. I know that there are those who would ban all AT-type tasks
in the interest of safety, but they are fun AND the Club Class around
the world lets older gliders fly AT's whereas our Sports Class makes
this fairly impossible or extremely unfair to the "lower" performance
ships.

Getting to the Team topoic, one thing I beleive our club class team
members are missing from their experience when they go to Club Class
Worlds is that, coming out of the US Sports Class, many of them HAVE
NEVER FLOWN an Assigned Task in a club class ship in their qualifiying
for the team. And if they are a Sports Class only competitior having
flown contests only in Sports Class, they will NEVER have flown an AT
until they get sent on a 500km AT in the mountains of France with
thunderstorms likely (as was done in France 2006).

Getting competitive pilots on the US Club Class Team requires having
practice and experience at Club Class racing prior to getting
overseas. The only way this works is to enable Club Class pilots to be
better developed here at home. How we do this is to provide for Club
Class contests here at home. Whether or not they are integrated with
other classes at the national level or as a stand alone nationals is
irrelevant. *The need for the class both to better develop our team
members AND to provide for better and fairer racing for all who wish
to should be the end goal here.

One additional thing that never gets said in this debate is that the
Ruels Committeee has no way of knowing what non-competition pilots
would be spurred into club class flying if the Club Class was added
tot he list of competing classes. If they send the SRA poll to
existent contest pilots only and you ask to add another class... well
then off course you are going to perceiving a further fracturing of
the currently existing base of contest pilots.

The question that needs to be asked and has never been fairly
addressed by the SRA poll is the following: If you are a glider pilot
having access to or flying a club class-type glider and do not
currently compete: Would the addition of Club Class events at the
regional and national level encourage you to get racing?

Get me a meaningful answer to that question and we may see that adding
Club Class may, in fact, expand the base of contest pilots and then
everyone wins. We just dont know and fears of "further dividing up"
the existing contest pilot population are unfounded until we get that
answer.

Tim McAllister EY

Tim makes some excellent points.
It should be noted, however, that the same discrimination against
previous US team members(other than Club) being on the Club team,
helped open the door for Tim, and some others, to get to go to the
"Big Show". This policy may not put the best pilots in the US on the
team, but it does provide a way to develop new talent. Sadly, mot
enough pilots seem to be aware, or interested, in this opportunity.
AST experience. I don't know of any Club team member who has not had
AST experience. It is true that a pilot coming up only in Sports could
end up in this situation in the future. I know Tim had it because I
watched him fly his Libelle against current technology ships and get
his a** handed to him. He smiled all the way, had fun, and learned a
lot.
Tim's point about about the question of who isn't coming now and would
if we had an active Club class is a good one which was on the poll
draft list at one time and not used. Clearly this is a key point. The
single largest driving force for creating another class is if it will
increase participation enough to justify the offsetting negatives.
If you are a pilot who would fall into this catagory, we would like to
hear from you, so please ring in at on this.
I'll report back later on what I hear.
Thanks for ringing in Tim.
UH

On Sep 24, 8:49*am, Tim wrote:
Just to throw my 2 cents into this debate...

I come at this as a former US Club Class Team member who owns a club
class glider and loves the club class concept BUT one that has put
himself on the "Black List" of pilots banned from competing in Club
Class due to flying another WGC in a non-club, world, junior class. I
would definitely fly a Club Class event here in the US rather than a
Sports Class event at any level - it is fairer! Even more so at a Club
Class Nationals if I could get back on the team ;-(

Getting a US Club Class Nationals (integrated with US Sports Nats
which I support as a 1st step to possible independence of the class)
will allow people who fly club class ships the opportunity for fairer
racing amongst a smaller range of handicapped ships AND allow for
flying Assigned Tasks (AT's) like the rest of the classes here in the
US get to fly. Flying AT's is fun and really lets you measure your
skills on a fixed course on any particular day against the best pilots
who fly. I know that there are those who would ban all AT-type tasks
in the interest of safety, but they are fun AND the Club Class around
the world lets older gliders fly AT's whereas our Sports Class makes
this fairly impossible or extremely unfair to the "lower" performance
ships.

Getting to the Team topoic, one thing I beleive our club class team
members are missing from their experience when they go to Club Class
Worlds is that, coming out of the US Sports Class, many of them HAVE
NEVER FLOWN an Assigned Task in a club class ship in their qualifiying
for the team. And if they are a Sports Class only competitior having
flown contests only in Sports Class, they will NEVER have flown an AT
until they get sent on a 500km AT in the mountains of France with
thunderstorms likely (as was done in France 2006).

Getting competitive pilots on the US Club Class Team requires having
practice and experience at Club Class racing prior to getting
overseas. The only way this works is to enable Club Class pilots to be
better developed here at home. How we do this is to provide for Club
Class contests here at home. Whether or not they are integrated with
other classes at the national level or as a stand alone nationals is
irrelevant. *The need for the class both to better develop our team
members AND to provide for better and fairer racing for all who wish
to should be the end goal here.

One additional thing that never gets said in this debate is that the
Ruels Committeee has no way of knowing what non-competition pilots
would be spurred into club class flying if the Club Class was added
tot he list of competing classes. If they send the SRA poll to
existent contest pilots only and you ask to add another class... well
then off course you are going to perceiving a further fracturing of
the currently existing base of contest pilots.

The question that needs to be asked and has never been fairly
addressed by the SRA poll is the following: If you are a glider pilot
having access to or flying a club class-type glider and do not
currently compete: Would the addition of Club Class events at the
regional and national level encourage you to get racing?

Get me a meaningful answer to that question and we may see that adding
Club Class may, in fact, expand the base of contest pilots and then
everyone wins. We just dont know and fears of "further dividing up"
the existing contest pilot population are unfounded until we get that
answer.

Tim McAllister EY

You've been on the team so your view automatically gets my attention
Tim.

One way to test most of your ideas would be to at least do a separate
scoring for Club Class ships within the next Sports Nationals - it
wouldn't take any rules changes to do it and you could even give out a
Joe Giltner-type award for the Club Class "winner". It wouldn't give
the AST experience you're looking for, but call a few MATs with more
than a couple of assigned turnpoints and you'll get most of the
effect. I find the AST the easiest to fly - dodging weather not
withstanding - but I grew up in racing with only ASTs so I'm used to
it. Back then just navigating the course was often my biggest
challenge. :-)

I still think at the regional level you are going to divide up the
classes too much and that overall Sports Class is a better solution to
the challenges facing soaring competition in the US, as well as for
picking US team members.

9B

On Sep 24, 3:22*pm, wrote:

I still think at the regional level you are going to divide up the
classes too much and that overall Sports Class is a better solution to
the challenges facing soaring competition in the US, as well as for
picking US team members.

As a newcomer (who thinks international competiton is cool but
realizes that it is highly unlikely that I'll do it), I couldn't agree
more with 9B's comments.

The US Team comprises such a small percentage of the glider-pilots in
the USA. Its a point of pride to have top finishers at the
International competiton; but I don't want to see my Regionals suffer
just so a a couple of different names get to go overseas once every
year or two.

And the issue of participation goes beyond the "number of entrants per
class" issue. It also speaks to the QUALITY of the pilots I fly
against... If they're scattered between too many classes then I'm not
really getting a chance to fly against the best, am I?

--Noel