AT, TAT, MAT?

Here are a few extra hints to make sure that you actually complete the
task:

1) Check your waypoint data, especially if you've entered or updated
any manually. (We once had a competitor enter the wrong coordinates
for a turnpoint and then flew about 90-degrees off course to a landout
in the middle of nowhere)

2) Make sure that you fly the current day's task and not
yesterday's. (I've seen that happen a couple of times).

3) If flying an MAT with poor weather conditions make sure that you
have a choice of turnpoints. (I blew a task last year when I chose
two successive turnpoints with no close alternatives that had
thunderstorms over them when I arrived).

Finishing the task should be your first goal. When you've figured out
how to do that, then you can increase your speed!

Mike

"Mike the Strike" wrote in message
...
Here are a few extra hints to make sure that you actually complete the
task:

1) Check your waypoint data, especially if you've entered or updated
any manually. (We once had a competitor enter the wrong coordinates
for a turnpoint and then flew about 90-degrees off course to a landout
in the middle of nowhere)

2) Make sure that you fly the current day's task and not
yesterday's. (I've seen that happen a couple of times).

3) If flying an MAT with poor weather conditions make sure that you
have a choice of turnpoints. (I blew a task last year when I chose
two successive turnpoints with no close alternatives that had
thunderstorms over them when I arrived).

Finishing the task should be your first goal. When you've figured out
how to do that, then you can increase your speed!

Mike



All good suggestions.

In addition---Don't cut your final glide close. Practice with the software
till you can trust it. Add an extra 200 ft until you know it is safe. It is
really neat to make it home past the other gliders in the nearby field.


Hartley

Thanks for all the tips and info, folks! Big thanks for the links to
John Cochrane & KS's past articles.

A couple of responses to the concerns and basic "just fly the task"
comments, so you understand where I'm coming from:

1) I'm flying with an S-Nav, a PDA (XCSoar), and an ewMicroRecorder.
I've practiced using all of the above equipment with AT-type tasks,
but I do need to figure out to set up MAT and TAT tasks. :-) I've
definitely spent some time dialing in my polar and final-glide
settings to try to make that part of it accurate, though (and I'm not
there yet).

2) I have been a big proponent of the Condor soaring simulator since I
first started working on transitioning from SEL to Glider. I have a
nice setup and have flown a lot of hours with it over the last 2
years. I think the thermals are slightly too symmetrical (too easy to
perfectly center in many cases) - but otherwise its an EXCELLENT
resource. Didn't think you could do MAT or TAT tasks with it,
though...

3) Practice: My last several flights at EPH this summer I made a
point of researching in the morning (see point #4 below), and picking
a few waypoints. I then flew to (or beyond) these waypoints on my
flights (noting differences in the forecast and the actual
conditions). I've also spent a fair amount of time flying near
Seattle itself, where cloudbases are very low and the lift is
typically only about 2 knots. This week I did a 125km+ XC flight -
which doesn't sound like much until you learn that the cloudbase was
3000' MSL and we were dodging rain-showers the whole time; and half of
the pilots that day landed out! Flying in weak conditions may not
allow for big distances, but the skills you develop in making low-
saves and "tiptoeing around" are invaluable!

4) Weather: For me this is a hugely important skill to learn as a
pilot. I've worked to become the chief forecaster for our local (west-
side) club. I am still working to get better at reading individual
clouds and timing my jumps to them, but I have become very adept at
using soundings (both real and simulated) and other online weather
resources to figure out the forecasted conditions at various points
along my flight-path. I'll admit it: mostly, I'm stubborn and I don't
trust other people's forecasts. I want to read the tea-leaves myself,
and then if I screw up I have no one else to blame. :-P

5) When to turn: This is still a big one for me. I am developing a
good "butt-meter" when it comes to detecting and centering lift when
I'm flying along slowly or already circling. At my typical cruise-
speed of ~80 knots I find it MUCH harder! Either I stop and turn for
a big bump that isn't workable (just a gust or something ragged); or I
blow through the lift by the time I realize its big enough to use, and
I don't think its worthwhile to try to turn back around to find it.
At least I know I'm not the only one who sometimes dolphin-flies and
pulls up in the sink on the far side because of vario lag... *sigh*

For those that have read this far (I'm impressed!) and have flown in
competitions: On a good day (thermal-strength-wise), how big of an
altitude band do you typically use when jumping between individual
clouds? I know about McCready theory and using streets and energy
lines and such; but I am curious about people's experiences and
anecdotal evidence. And yes, I know the exact answer is dependant
upon terrain and conditions - but I'm still interested to know what
your rough estimate is.

Thanks again for some excellent suggestions and information!

Take care,

--Noel

Noel, I'm in the same boat as you, so I've been following this thread.
Regarding Altitude band, I find it educational to review other guys at
my field flights on OLC to see their speeds, alt band, how often they
stopped and circled, how many times they stopped only to abandone the
thermal, etc.

Noel (and Barny and all):

Since others might be in the same boat, here is a review of height
bands. Please accept my apology if this goes too far back as others
might benefit.

According to Phil Petmecky's "Breaking the Apron Strings, page 29 and
33," Flight bands are designed solely to increase your speed. The
primary time to use flight bands is when speed or time is a factor;
such as during a contest task, or a long badge flight, or racing the
sun or clouds (this last one is my addition). Altitude bands allow us
to fly fast when conditions warrant, without reducing our options at
lower altitudes. Flight bands expand our options as we get lower.

Per Bob Wander's "Glider Polars and Speed-to-fly Made Easy, page 18,"
Fly aggressive speeds when high in the band, conservative speeds when
in the middle of the band, and fly survival speeds when low in the
band.

The normal operating band is most often the top two thirds of the
convection layer (e.g.: If the maximum achieved altitude is 6,000'
AGL, the normal operating band is between 2,000-6,000 feet). But until
confidence is gained, the new cross-country pilot might use the top
half of the convection layer as the normal operating height band.
Below the normal operating band, any lift should be used (until
gaining more experience).

Raul Boerner
LS6-b
(also with only two Regionals under the belt)

Thanks, Raul. I'm very familiar with the published information...
But as some of those authors point out - what people say about flying
and what people do _when_ flying are sometimes different. :-)

That's why I was looking for some anecdotal responses from competition
pilots... How often are they taking big climbs (regardless of whether
its a great thermal)? How often are they driving far enough between
thermals to lose 2000' or more in altitude between climbs?

Take care,

--Noel

On Oct 11, 12:13*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Thanks, Raul. *I'm very familiar with the published information...
But as some of those authors point out - what people say about flying
and what people do _when_ flying are sometimes different. :-)

That's why I was looking for some anecdotal responses from competition
pilots... How often are they taking big climbs (regardless of whether
its a great thermal)? *How often are they driving far enough between
thermals to lose 2000' or more in altitude between climbs?

Take care,

--Noel

Try downloading the flightlogs from SSA.org sailplane racing, contest
results and use seeyou to look at the flights and statistics. Usually
the top three spots for each contest day are posted. That will
provide much more reliable data than anecdotal reports ever will.

The height band theory works best when conditions in the task area are
homogeneous -- adjust for your conditions.

I recall a task at the Parowan Region 9 in 2007 that took me from the
clouds out into the blue, 20 miles or more to the next clouds. I left
the clouds at cloudbase at best L/D speed and kept it there. I just
made it to the next lift!

2NO

The advice of Jay Rebbeck (former World Junior Champion)in an article in
Sailplane and Gliding a few years ago was to fly your Macready setting
in the top 50% of the height between ground and cloudbase. Once you drop
below 50%, reduce your speed to fly until you find the thermal to get
you back into the top 50%. He reckons this works irrespective of whether
your cloudbase is 3,000 ft or 15,000 ft.

The thing I find hardest is not stopping to climb in the top 50% for
anything but the best lift - that's why I'm pretty much the slowest
pilot around.

wrote:
Noel (and Barny and all):

Since others might be in the same boat, here is a review of height
bands. Please accept my apology if this goes too far back as others
might benefit.

According to Phil Petmecky's "Breaking the Apron Strings, page 29 and
33," Flight bands are designed solely to increase your speed. The
primary time to use flight bands is when speed or time is a factor;
such as during a contest task, or a long badge flight, or racing the
sun or clouds (this last one is my addition). Altitude bands allow us
to fly fast when conditions warrant, without reducing our options at
lower altitudes. Flight bands expand our options as we get lower.

Per Bob Wander's "Glider Polars and Speed-to-fly Made Easy, page 18,"
Fly aggressive speeds when high in the band, conservative speeds when
in the middle of the band, and fly survival speeds when low in the
band.

The normal operating band is most often the top two thirds of the
convection layer (e.g.: If the maximum achieved altitude is 6,000'
AGL, the normal operating band is between 2,000-6,000 feet). But until
confidence is gained, the new cross-country pilot might use the top
half of the convection layer as the normal operating height band.
Below the normal operating band, any lift should be used (until
gaining more experience).

Raul Boerner
LS6-b
(also with only two Regionals under the belt)

noel.wade wrote:
Thanks for all the tips and info, folks! Big thanks for the links to
John Cochrane & KS's past articles.

A couple of responses to the concerns and basic "just fly the task"
comments, so you understand where I'm coming from:

1) I'm flying with an S-Nav, a PDA (XCSoar), and an ewMicroRecorder.
I've practiced using all of the above equipment with AT-type tasks,
but I do need to figure out to set up MAT and TAT tasks. :-) I've
definitely spent some time dialing in my polar and final-glide
settings to try to make that part of it accurate, though (and I'm not
there yet).

2) I have been a big proponent of the Condor soaring simulator since I
first started working on transitioning from SEL to Glider. I have a
nice setup and have flown a lot of hours with it over the last 2
years. I think the thermals are slightly too symmetrical (too easy to
perfectly center in many cases) - but otherwise its an EXCELLENT
resource. Didn't think you could do MAT or TAT tasks with it,
though...

3) Practice: My last several flights at EPH this summer I made a
point of researching in the morning (see point #4 below), and picking
a few waypoints. I then flew to (or beyond) these waypoints on my
flights (noting differences in the forecast and the actual
conditions). I've also spent a fair amount of time flying near
Seattle itself, where cloudbases are very low and the lift is
typically only about 2 knots. This week I did a 125km+ XC flight -
which doesn't sound like much until you learn that the cloudbase was
3000' MSL and we were dodging rain-showers the whole time; and half of
the pilots that day landed out! Flying in weak conditions may not
allow for big distances, but the skills you develop in making low-
saves and "tiptoeing around" are invaluable!

4) Weather: For me this is a hugely important skill to learn as a
pilot. I've worked to become the chief forecaster for our local (west-
side) club. I am still working to get better at reading individual
clouds and timing my jumps to them, but I have become very adept at
using soundings (both real and simulated) and other online weather
resources to figure out the forecasted conditions at various points
along my flight-path. I'll admit it: mostly, I'm stubborn and I don't
trust other people's forecasts. I want to read the tea-leaves myself,
and then if I screw up I have no one else to blame. :-P

5) When to turn: This is still a big one for me. I am developing a
good "butt-meter" when it comes to detecting and centering lift when
I'm flying along slowly or already circling. At my typical cruise-
speed of ~80 knots I find it MUCH harder! Either I stop and turn for
a big bump that isn't workable (just a gust or something ragged); or I
blow through the lift by the time I realize its big enough to use, and
I don't think its worthwhile to try to turn back around to find it.
At least I know I'm not the only one who sometimes dolphin-flies and
pulls up in the sink on the far side because of vario lag... *sigh*
Hi Noel, just my opinion as a low experience contest pilot.

Thermal entry from fast cruise is a very important skill.

As a beginner on this (4 contests - low scores, speed improving) from high speed the trick is to pull up relatively hard
and straight, as the speed bleeds off you can hunt a little to feel which way the lift is best. IF the vario gets to
above your MC Cready setting then turn that way when your speed is near what you want to thermal at. If the vario tops
out below whatever your MC setting is at that height, get the nose down as the lift reduces and keep going. (Thanks mr
Moffatt) Implies you know have decided what your MC number is going to be for the top 50%, next 20%-30% and the
"survival" part of the soaring band. The really hard part is being ruthless about bad thermals, too weak, too broken up,
or just behind you are all thermals that you need to disdain and reject.

If the vario setup is bad you can have a lot of frustration - suggest you have someone who has the experience fly your
ship and get an opinion on whether your probe and vario are working well.
My performance improved markedly when I got a reasonable vario as opposed to the laggy, inaccurate vintage thing my ship
came with. Of course, now I know the poor performance is due to the laggy, inaccurate pilot.


For those that have read this far (I'm impressed!) and have flown in
competitions: On a good day (thermal-strength-wise), how big of an
altitude band do you typically use when jumping between individual
clouds? I know about McCready theory and using streets and energy
lines and such; but I am curious about people's experiences and
anecdotal evidence. And yes, I know the exact answer is dependant
upon terrain and conditions - but I'm still interested to know what
your rough estimate is.

Thanks again for some excellent suggestions and information!

Take care,

--Noel