SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

On Oct 29, 11:27*am, DRN wrote:
On Oct 28, 8:48*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:

Why *would you want a PDA when you have an SN10?

What customers have told us is:
- I want a moving map ALWAYS displayed for alternates and airspace
- I want to see alternates without page-fiddling
- I want to use the SN10 for everything EXCEPT the map

This is how we arrived at the current NMEA outputs;
to support the common customer requests.

This moving map business is over rated and puts your eyes inside
the cockpit.

For those that want to see this info all the time, its
less time heads-down with the PDA map display

You done good on the SN10 wind program, Dave.

Thanks !

Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

PS: See JJ, some of these guys are a whole lot more nervous
than you ex-fighter-jocks, so they need to have this info
always available rather than just checking when appropriate ;-)

Dave, I still don't get why you don't provide the TAS data on NEMA.
You seem to say that pilots, or the PDA software, can compare the
calculated wind from the differnet devices but you are tying the hands
of the PDA software a bit and either it has to do non-TAS enganced
wind calculations or it has to take the SN-10 calcualted wind data.
Why not let the PDA software see the same TAS data you are using? That
does nothing to take away from the good wind calculations the SN10 is
doing internally. Again I can see why Naviter would prefer to do their
own raw wind calculations - and as a user I'd prefer the PDA software
be using the same basic algorithms regardless of the source I'm
conected to.

To Andy's point I do like to compare different wind calculations. But
in my case I am checking what my Cambridge 303 is showing vs. what
SeeYou is showing (enhanced from the C302). Here there is a common
point of failure in the TAS data (unlike Andy's setup). I suspect many
pilots are competently unaware of what is actually going on between
their GPS/flight computer and PDA software for wind calculations. What
would be useful is if Naviter (and other?) software vendors would
explain more clearly the sources/behavior of wind calculations, Mc
settings, ballast settings, etc. depending on what device they are
connected to. Andrej, if that documentation exists shoot me down
now...

Regards


Darryl

Very interesting discussion. I myself use SN10 + PDA(SeeYou). Besides
what have been mentioned, SeeYou also leaves traces which are useful
to come back at exactly the same place in wave, etc.

I think the original question is easy to answer.. You can buy
everything you need to make the cable at Radio Shack for less than
$10, so just go for it and see if you like it.

-Gen

On Oct 29, 1:14*pm, gen wrote:
Very interesting discussion. I myself use SN10 + PDA(SeeYou). Besides
what have been mentioned, SeeYou also leaves traces which are useful
to come back at exactly the same place in wave, etc.

I think the original question is easy to answer.. You can buy
everything you need to make the cable at Radio Shack for less than
$10, so just go for it and see if you like it.

-Gen

The original question was likely answered the other way. I read that
Kirk specifically wanted wanted to see the benefit of ehnanced wind/
air data for SeeYou - then don't bother as there is no enhanced data
communicated. You can just stay with a separate GPS source for the
PDA. There may be other benefits of communicating Mc. etc settings
however that was not the question.

Darryl

gen wrote:
Very interesting discussion. I myself use SN10 + PDA(SeeYou). Besides
what have been mentioned, SeeYou also leaves traces which are useful
to come back at exactly the same place in wave, etc.

I think the original question is easy to answer.. You can buy
everything you need to make the cable at Radio Shack for less than
$10, so just go for it and see if you like it.

-Gen

I actually modified my SN10B, Volksloger, PDA cabling two years ago in
order to get SN10 Data into my PDA - This turned ut to be a big waste of
time!

The problem was that SN10 also appended its own pressure altitude data
to the NMEA data stream together with the pressure altitude data from
the Volkslogger. These two pressure altitude data may typically differ
by at least 100meter.

While flying close to the upper airspace boundary, it was totally random
if SeeYou used the Volkslogger or the SN10 altitude to calculate an
airspace warning. This resulted in lots of false warnings when the SN10
produced a higher altitude reading than the Volkslogger, and a single
time resulted in a airspace violation when the SN10 decided that I was
lower than the Volkslogger logged.

Most of the time it was only pure annoying - I decided to rip out the
new cabling at the last annual.

Ole John Aske, Ls8T

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm happy with my current SN10/PDA
setup, just looking for small enhancements. I currently have both
setup totally independent of each other, with separate GPS sources
(and even separate batteries). I'm considering on adding a GPS
splitter to allow either GPS to drive the PDA, for redundancy, so
while at it was wondering if the SN10 vario/altitude inputs would
enhance SeeYouMobile (don't really care about wind - they already
match pretty closely, and the SN10 works just fine for that).
Thinking mainly about the vario and final glide functions.

JJ, yeah, I know this is probably overkill, but it's fun (and PDAs are
cheap) and I've lost single systems on long flights before. Nice to
have a backup...

For Dave: How about updating how the SN10 handles USA start/finish
rules? And since now an AST is essentially an AAT with 1 mile areas
and no time limit, how about combining the two to get rid of the need
to go to the SETUP menu to create or change an AAT task? And figure
final glide to the finish circle (i.e. 500' at one mile), not the
finish turnpoint/airport (I can use the alternate page for that)?

And PLEASE, get rid of those annoying announcements ("You have entered
the start/turn/finish circle, press HELP to continue") - I know that!
If no action is necessary, then either let me choose to not see those
"info" announcements, or make them go away on their own after a few
seconds, without any button pushes.

Last request: Display digital altitude to the nearest 10 feet. That
is the convention used in all the current civil and military digital
avionics displays, for a good reason - the rapidly changing single
feet (or meter) digits are distracting and serve no useful purpose -
and can even make the altitude trend hard to see. Input altitudes to
the nearest feet is fine, just round off the final glide altitude
needed and current altitude displays to the nearest 10 feet. Trust
me, try it, you'll like it!

Cheers!

Kirk
SN10 user for the past 8 years and loving it.

I'm considering on adding a GPS
splitter to allow either GPS to drive the PDA, for redundancy,

Roger that, only I'm considering a switch that would allow me to
select either one of my 2 GPS's to drive the SN10. The thing is worse
than usless if the GPS signal is lost.............it keeps providing
info back to where the GPS stopped giving inputs. Am I correct in
assuming I can send the red and white wires from both Model 20 GPS's
to the SN10 with the NMEA signal (red) going to a SPDT switch with one
GPS (red) input on the top and the other GPS (red) on the bottom of
this "selector" switch?

Dave, Roger on Kirk's requests for SN10 updates......... "your inside
the start cylinder" and "you have a good start" can drive me nuts as I
loiter near the edge of the gate. Maybe have these alerts go away in a
few seconds.
JJ

Hi John,

you can solve this problem by deactivating the $PGCS1 NMEA sentence at
the Volkslogger. Then Seeyou gets pressure height data only from SN10 an
position data from Volkslogger.

Falk

Ole John Aske schrieb:
gen wrote:
Very interesting discussion. I myself use SN10 + PDA(SeeYou). Besides
what have been mentioned, SeeYou also leaves traces which are useful
to come back at exactly the same place in wave, etc.

I think the original question is easy to answer.. You can buy
everything you need to make the cable at Radio Shack for less than
$10, so just go for it and see if you like it.

-Gen

I actually modified my SN10B, Volksloger, PDA cabling two years ago in
order to get SN10 Data into my PDA - This turned ut to be a big waste of
time!

The problem was that SN10 also appended its own pressure altitude data
to the NMEA data stream together with the pressure altitude data from
the Volkslogger. These two pressure altitude data may typically differ
by at least 100meter.

While flying close to the upper airspace boundary, it was totally random
if SeeYou used the Volkslogger or the SN10 altitude to calculate an
airspace warning. This resulted in lots of false warnings when the SN10
produced a higher altitude reading than the Volkslogger, and a single
time resulted in a airspace violation when the SN10 decided that I was
lower than the Volkslogger logged.

Most of the time it was only pure annoying - I decided to rip out the
new cabling at the last annual.

Ole John Aske, Ls8T

--
Falk Rüth
K6-Team

http://www.k6-team.de