asymetric warfare

ess (phil hunt) wrote:

:On 19 Dec 2003 15:38:09 GMT, Bertil Jonell wrote:
:In article ,
:phil hunt wrote:
:I've worked as a programmer for
:defense contractors (and for other large organisations), and believe
:me, there is a *lot* of waste and inefficiency. If the software was
:written right, it could probably be done with several orders of
:magnitude more efficiency.
:
: What competing method is there except for Open Source?
:
:Open source -- or rather, using some of the ideas from how OSS
rojects are btypically run -- is certainly useful. Employing the
:best people (the top 10% of programmers are probably 10 times more
roductive than the average, and 100 times more productive than the
:bottom 10%) is important, as is encouraging debate (in a
:non-threatening atmosphere) as to what can be done better.

But selecting those folks out and motivating them to work is much
harder.

:Extreme Programming has some very good ideas, as do other Agile
:techniques.

Many are 'good ideas' only if you don't have to maintain the final
product.

:Collaborative systems for discussing evolving software
rojects -- mailing lists, wikis, etc -- are good.

You think this isn't done?

:Usingn the right
rogramming tools is important, for example the right lasnguasge or
more likely) set of languages. On which lanugages to use, Paul
:Graham's essays on language design, and the way Lisp makes it easy
:for you to in effect write your own specialised language for the job
:in hand, are apposite.

Again, this is wonderful until someone has to enhance or maintain the
result. EVERY effort written in a 'one-off' special purpose language?
Ugh!

:Concentration on software quality involves lack of caring about
ther criteria, so forcing employees to wear strangulation devices,
r unnecessarily attending work at particular hours, are
:counterproductive in themselves as well as being symptomatic of
:wider PHB-ism.

I don't know how to break it do you, but the last time I wore a tie
was around a year ago (I was briefing an O-6 - even so, the tie was a
mistake, which I didn't repeat the last time I went to brief one). I
generally wear polo shirts to work (and pretty much work when I feel
like it - the problems which you find so easy seem to consume an awful
lot of time before they are acceptably solved, so they let me work as
many hours as I want (up to a limit where the company starts worrying
about burn-out)).

Get back to me when someone has obtained a clue for you, won't you?

--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
news
ess (phil hunt) wrote:



:Usingn the right
rogramming tools is important, for example the right lasnguasge or
more likely) set of languages. On which lanugages to use, Paul
:Graham's essays on language design, and the way Lisp makes it easy
:for you to in effect write your own specialised language for the job
:in hand, are apposite.

Again, this is wonderful until someone has to enhance or maintain the
result. EVERY effort written in a 'one-off' special purpose language?
Ugh!


He wants to use lisp for real time software !

Yikes

:Concentration on software quality involves lack of caring about
ther criteria, so forcing employees to wear strangulation devices,
r unnecessarily attending work at particular hours, are
:counterproductive in themselves as well as being symptomatic of
:wider PHB-ism.

I don't know how to break it do you, but the last time I wore a tie
was around a year ago (I was briefing an O-6 - even so, the tie was a
mistake, which I didn't repeat the last time I went to brief one). I
generally wear polo shirts to work (and pretty much work when I feel
like it - the problems which you find so easy seem to consume an awful
lot of time before they are acceptably solved, so they let me work as
many hours as I want (up to a limit where the company starts worrying
about burn-out)).


As a software engineer I have to say this joker seems to know nothing
about the business. The only people wh wear ties in our company
are the accountants.

Keith

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:01:52 -0000, Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
news
ess (phil hunt) wrote:



:Usingn the right
rogramming tools is important, for example the right lasnguasge or
more likely) set of languages. On which lanugages to use, Paul
:Graham's essays on language design, and the way Lisp makes it easy
:for you to in effect write your own specialised language for the job
:in hand, are apposite.

Again, this is wonderful until someone has to enhance or maintain the
result. EVERY effort written in a 'one-off' special purpose language?
Ugh!

He wants to use lisp for real time software !

No, he merely thinks Lisp's macro system has advantages, when trying
to solve hard problems.


--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:01:52 -0000, Keith Willshaw
wrote:

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
news
ess (phil hunt) wrote:



:Usingn the right
rogramming tools is important, for example the right lasnguasge or
more likely) set of languages. On which lanugages to use, Paul
:Graham's essays on language design, and the way Lisp makes it easy
:for you to in effect write your own specialised language for the job
:in hand, are apposite.

Again, this is wonderful until someone has to enhance or maintain the
result. EVERY effort written in a 'one-off' special purpose language?
Ugh!

He wants to use lisp for real time software !

No, he merely thinks Lisp's macro system has advantages, when trying
to solve hard problems.


And some nasty disadvantages which is why it has somewhat
fallen out of favour.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

:"phil hunt" wrote in message
...
: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:01:52 -0000, Keith Willshaw
wrote:
:
: He wants to use lisp for real time software !
:
: No, he merely thinks Lisp's macro system has advantages, when trying
: to solve hard problems.
:
:And some nasty disadvantages which is why it has somewhat
:fallen out of favour.

And if he likes LISP's ability to redefine the world, he'll LOVE
FORTH....

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:02:34 -0000, Keith Willshaw wrote:

No, he merely thinks Lisp's macro system has advantages, when trying
to solve hard problems.

And some nasty disadvantages which is why it has somewhat
fallen out of favour.

All solutions have disadvantages. (Because all the ones that don't a
standard practise, and no-one ever considers doing it another way).

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).