[OT] USA - TSA Obstructing Armed Pilots?

"Paul J. Adam" wrote...

I'm not particularly pro- or anti- armed pilots. There are significant
administrative issues (how do you secure the weapons between flights?

There have been several proposals addressed to the TSA, but they seem to have
adopted the WORST one of all (probably in their apparent continuing effort to
minimize the number of pilots who will be armed). They have adopted a method
PROHIBITED for Air Marshals and other Law Enforcement Officers (e.g., prisoner
escorts) aboard airplanes!


my main concern is that other more
effective measures for protecting the pilots and their aircraft get
ignored as too difficult or expensive, because "the pilots can be armed
so now there's no problem".

Those other measures, "more effective" or not, will continue to be "too
difficult or expensive" regardless of other measures adopted. The miniscule
number of armed pilots PLUS Air Marshals CANNOT make up for ANY other measures!
However, when the lives of several hundred passengers are at stake, "defense in
depth" is a reasonable measure.


I don't see it as a hugely effective measure - you can't shoot well over
your shoulder while strapped into a seat

That's why specific training has been developed... Besides, the range is VERY
short, so long-range accuracy is NOT a factor in that case.

In message O10Hb.485370$275.1381929@attbi_s53, John R Weiss
writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote...
I don't see it as a hugely effective measure - you can't shoot well over
your shoulder while strapped into a seat

That's why specific training has been developed... Besides, the range is VERY
short, so long-range accuracy is NOT a factor in that case.

Odds are you'll be outnumbered if the Bad Guys have breached security
(if they can get one weapon aboard, why not a dozen or more?)

The idea that "armed pilots" are more than a backstop to other security
measures is romantic but foolish - pilots have much more important tasks
than threatening passengers, and of course Bad Guys would _never_ make
their move during times of high workload.

If the Bad Guys can get guns or knives aboard, they can get stun
grenades, CS grenades, cattle prods and assorted other means to subdue
two men strapped into seats. "Not Letting Them Throw Things Into
Cockpits Or Open Cockpit Doors" might be more important - but who cares
about expensive modifications to cockpit security, when the pilots could
be armed and will be asked and expected to handle every threat? (And can
be blamed for any failure?)

Maybe I'm a cynic.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

The idea that "armed pilots" are more than a backstop to other security
measures is romantic but foolish - pilots have much more important tasks
than threatening passengers, and of course Bad Guys would _never_ make
their move during times of high workload.

You bring up some compelling points. I'm curious as to exactly how
an airline pilot, effectively walled-off from intruders by bulletproof
cockpit doors, is able to bring his weapon to bear against the bad
guys. Are there holes or slits in the cockpit doors (ala a Brinks or
Wells Fargo truck) to allow the pilots to poke their gun barrels
through so as to aim with precision while shooting back at the bad
guys?

Mike Marron wrote in
:

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

The idea that "armed pilots" are more than a backstop to other security
measures is romantic but foolish - pilots have much more important tasks
than threatening passengers, and of course Bad Guys would _never_ make
their move during times of high workload.

You bring up some compelling points. I'm curious as to exactly how
an airline pilot, effectively walled-off from intruders by bulletproof
cockpit doors, is able to bring his weapon to bear against the bad
guys. Are there holes or slits in the cockpit doors (ala a Brinks or
Wells Fargo truck) to allow the pilots to poke their gun barrels
through so as to aim with precision while shooting back at the bad
guys?



Perhaps the guns are menat to be used *only* if the cockpit door is
breached?? In AvLeak,someone mentioned how cabin cleaners used a beverage
cart to knock a reinforced door off it's hinges.

It's also my understanding that the pilots are NOT to leave the cockpit
with their gun,that it IS only for the event of a breach.Until the door is
breached,the pilots first job is to land the aircraft at the closest field
available.Besides,they probably would be banking and changing pitch to make
it difficult to stand for unseated persons.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net