On-board Video Equipment?

wrote:

The esteemed John Cochrane BB is right on. Adding camera duties on top
of your flying duties at your first contest invites equipment
overload. Two or three contests down the road you can consider the

Do some of you you even read a question before answering to it? Noel
explicitely asked for something he "can simply turn on at the beginning
of each flight and let it capture a couple of hours of video".

On Jan 28, 12:13*pm, John Smith wrote:
wrote:
The esteemed John Cochrane BB is right on. Adding camera duties on top
of your flying duties at your first contest invites equipment
overload. Two or three contests down the road you can consider the

Do some of you you even read a question before answering to it? Noel
explicitely asked for something he "can simply turn on at the beginning
of each flight and let it capture a couple of hours of video".

Both of the folks who replied clearly read the post and clearly
anticipated the problems that a newbie wouldn't. Imagine the
scenario... Sitting on the grid 10 minutes before launch. Time to
turn on the camera. Let's see if the little green light comes on.
Hmmm... no little green light. I wonder why that is? Let's check
the connections to the battery. Damn... I wonder if I forgot to
recharge. I'll just stroll back to the trailer to get the backup.
Hmm... I know it's here somewhere. Hey, why are all those guys down
on the line jumping up and down?

I'm sure Noel is smarter than that. Unfortunately, that's "resting
IQ." Contests seem to make us all dumber by 25%, and suddenly we're
not nearly as smart as we thought we were.

There are so many things that can and will go wrong at the first
contest. Do you really think that playing Warren Miller of the Sky
is a smart use of what little brain capacity may be left?

Sometimes the pundits really do know what they're talking about.

Respectfully submitted,
P3

All -

I knew I would get some replies with concerns about safety. First: I
thank you for your input and caution. Please understand that I will
be taking all of this into account; and its always good to hear
_friendly_ reminders about these factors. :-)

My intention, as stated, is to do something that is "fire and
forget". And I will NOT be compromising the race in order to catch it
on film. The idea is to use the footage as an educational /
motivational tool for other young XC pilots, IF I can. I'm an IT
person when I'm not flying, so I'm very comfortable with the
technology and I think I can rig it all up a few weeks before-hand and
not have it be a distraction.

If I don't have it all set up and tested before I trailer down to
Warner Springs in April, I will NOT attempt to set it up at the
competition site. Furthermore, if the camera doesn't work the first
time I press the power or record button, it will be discarded /
ignored. The competition itself is undoubtedly top priority - I'm
there to have a safe and fun time flying; I'm not there to be a
filmmaker.

Paul - thanks for the info; I'm looking to spend $500 - $800 (maybe a
little more if I find something to-die-for; but NOT $1600). :-P

Also, for any system that needs a "head unit", I can use a remote
camera and plug its output into my camcorder (secured and unreachable
behind the seat). The camcorder is a hard-drive-based one that can
record for a pretty good length of time; but I'd rather not deal with
it if I don't have to.

Thanks all, I appreciate any further suggestions,

--Noel

P.S. Since most people don't know me that well, let me explain my
attitude towards technology and distractions in the cockpit:

I'm the kind of IT guy who yells at everyone to stop playing with
their PDAs and flight computers, and to keep their eyes OUTSIDE! :-P

I fly with a PDA myself, but all I do is glance at it occasionally to
determine 3 things (in this order):

1) Am I where I think I am?
2) Does the computer think I can make it to any airports/landout spots
(i.e. "What's my escape route right now")?
3) How far is it to my desired waypoint?

I set my systems up so that this is all "no-hands" operation, and I
rarely, if ever, monkey with the PDA in flight (usually only when on
casual flights and the Wx is not what was forecast, so I change my
waypoints to fly in a different part of the sky). Even then, I only do
it while in straight-and-level flight when I'm not near other gliders
or aircraft... and I only go "heads-down" for 5 - 10 seconds at a
time. That means these small changes can take a couple of minutes;
but I've had a couple of near-collisions while flying powered aircraft
- so I REALLY value "see and avoid"!

Now, back to cameras... any thoughts?

--Noel

On Jan 28, 1:59*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
P.S. *Since most people don't know me that well, let me explain my
attitude towards technology and distractions in the cockpit:

I'm the kind of IT guy who yells at everyone to stop playing with
their PDAs and flight computers, and to keep their eyes OUTSIDE! :-P

I fly with a PDA myself, but all I do is glance at it occasionally to
determine 3 things (in this order):

1) Am I where I think I am?
2) Does the computer think I can make it to any airports/landout spots
(i.e. "What's my escape route right now")?
3) How far is it to my desired waypoint?

I set my systems up so that this is all "no-hands" operation, and I
rarely, if ever, monkey with the PDA in flight (usually only when on
casual flights and the Wx is not what was forecast, so I change my
waypoints to fly in a different part of the sky). Even then, I only do
it while in straight-and-level flight when I'm not near other gliders
or aircraft... and I only go "heads-down" for 5 - 10 seconds at a
time. *That means these small changes can take a couple of minutes;
but I've had a couple of near-collisions while flying powered aircraft
- so I REALLY value "see and avoid"!

Now, back to cameras... *any thoughts?

--Noel

Umm... just a practical suggestion here...
you might want to spend that time practicing a few PDA tasks
before the contest. You will fly area tasks and MAT tasks there,
which
mostly don't correspond to what you fly at home. Both of those
require
some special PDA skills that you need to do effortlessly in the
cockpit.
They're not hard, but they are specialized.

I'm with you on the whole "look outside" issue, but I did spend my
off season last year learning how to use the area task features of
SoarPilot using Condor. They were very helpful, and they meant that
I didn't need to fiddle with the PDA very much while flying my tasks.

Now, back to the camera stuff. The camera or videocam will both be
very useful on the ground when you're not flying. You'll find out
that you'll
have a blast with the social life at the contest, and the camera shots
and videos will reflect that. That will be a real good selling point
for your friends back home. For videos shot during the flight, it
would
be nice if you could put a camera behind your left ear that can see
the
instrument panel and outside, but I wouldn't spend much time on it.

-- Matt

On Jan 28, 1:27*pm, wrote:
On Jan 28, 1:59*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:





P.S. *Since most people don't know me that well, let me explain my
attitude towards technology and distractions in the cockpit:

I'm the kind of IT guy who yells at everyone to stop playing with
their PDAs and flight computers, and to keep their eyes OUTSIDE! :-P

I fly with a PDA myself, but all I do is glance at it occasionally to
determine 3 things (in this order):

1) Am I where I think I am?
2) Does the computer think I can make it to any airports/landout spots
(i.e. "What's my escape route right now")?
3) How far is it to my desired waypoint?

I set my systems up so that this is all "no-hands" operation, and I
rarely, if ever, monkey with the PDA in flight (usually only when on
casual flights and the Wx is not what was forecast, so I change my
waypoints to fly in a different part of the sky). Even then, I only do
it while in straight-and-level flight when I'm not near other gliders
or aircraft... and I only go "heads-down" for 5 - 10 seconds at a
time. *That means these small changes can take a couple of minutes;
but I've had a couple of near-collisions while flying powered aircraft
- so I REALLY value "see and avoid"!

Now, back to cameras... *any thoughts?

--Noel

Umm... just a practical suggestion here...
you might want to spend that time practicing a few PDA tasks
before the contest. *You will fly area tasks and MAT tasks there,
which
mostly don't correspond to what you fly at home. *Both of those
require
some special PDA skills that you need to do effortlessly in the
cockpit.
They're not hard, but they are specialized.

I'm with you on the whole "look outside" issue, but I did spend my
off season last year learning how to use the area task features of
SoarPilot using Condor. *They were very helpful, and they meant that
I didn't need to fiddle with the PDA very much while flying my tasks.

Now, back to the camera stuff. *The camera or videocam will both be
very useful on the ground when you're not flying. *You'll find out
that you'll
have a blast with the social life at the contest, and the camera shots
and videos will reflect that. *That will be a real good selling point
for your friends back home. *For videos shot during the flight, it
would
be nice if you could put a camera behind your left ear that can see
the
instrument panel and outside, but I wouldn't spend much time on it.

-- Matt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Noel,

http://gizmofocus-llc.amazonwebstore...source=froogle

I bought one of these along with a fixed mount bullet camera to play
with this year. It seems pretty simple to setup and the video is
reasonable given the cost (352x240@30fps, 704x240@24fps,
704x480@12fps). It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes with a
simple one-touch record on-off button. One caveat though, it creates a
series of short video files in memory rather than one long one. I
believe the purpose for that is to loop around and overwrite the
oldest one when memory runs out (it's a security recorder). However,
it does play back in one seamless stream (chronologically) with no
visible splice points. I have played with it a bit at home and it's
fairly easy to capture the playback video as one continuous stream on
the computer. If you're looking for HD quality, this won't work.

If you're interested, you can borrow it for a bit to play with. I
won't be needing it for a while..... (


Dave

At 18:59 28 January 2009, noel.wade wrote:

Now, back to cameras... any thoughts?

Hi Noel

I bought a bullet camera with fixed mount (head cam is a pain in the
neck!) and a solid state recorder about the size of a cigarette packet.

The recorder was designed for covert surveillance. It records about 3hrs
on one charge at 30fps VGA with sound onto an SD card. Very good quality
and easy to use. Cost about $600.

Now the bad news - editing. I installed AVS4YOU to edit down the footage.
Have you ever tried to edit 3hrs down to a few minutes? It requires huge
computing power, huge disks, and huge patience. It is unbelievably boring
and the end result won't even be appreciated by your friends, let alone
your family.

IMO better value in other pursuits.

Jim

On Jan 28, 10:30*pm, Jim White wrote:

Now the bad news - editing. I installed AVS4YOU to edit down the footage.
Have you ever tried to edit 3hrs down to a few minutes? It requires huge
computing power, huge disks, and huge patience. It is unbelievably boring
and the end result won't even be appreciated by your friends, let alone
your family.

IMO better value in other pursuits.

Jim

Jim -

Yes, I _have_ editted down that much video into just a few
minutes! ;-)

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBB_ggqYFA

Thanks for the tips, though!

--Noel
(Who must be a masochist)

On Jan 28, 11:13*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
On Jan 28, 10:30*pm, Jim White wrote:

Now the bad news - editing. I installed AVS4YOU to edit down the footage.
Have you ever tried to edit 3hrs down to a few minutes? It requires huge
computing power, huge disks, and huge patience. It is unbelievably boring
and the end result won't even be appreciated by your friends, let alone
your family.

IMO better value in other pursuits.

Jim

Jim -

Yes, I _have_ editted down that much video into just a few
minutes! ;-)

See: *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBB_ggqYFA

Thanks for the tips, though!

--Noel
(Who must be a masochist)

I've used the color bullet cameras that plug into the video-in jack on
my DV camcorder. Get the highest definition you can find - IIRC they
max out at around 420 lines. I mounted mine on the nose looking back
at the cockpit using a camera mount on an aluminum pole about 12" long
that was mounted to a sheet of aluminum which I taped down like crazy.
The photos were pretty good considering my inability to pan, zoom or
assess the lighting (into the sun sucked - duh). For your purposes I
would not, repeat not, go for an external mount. It's a mess to run
the wires out through the vent window, along the canopy to the hinge
point, then along the fuselage and maybe the wing to wherever you want
the camera. It requires constant fiddling and will cause a fair amount
of drag, especially when the tape starts peeling. There are wireless
security cameras that you might be able to adapt, but they can't even
resolve a perp at the local 7-11, much less the beauty of soaring
flight. I also wouldn't recommend mounting the whole camera externally
for reasons that are easy enough to guess. With an inside mount you
will be hard pressed to find a place that can both see past your head
and doesn't get in your way so even here you may be better off with
the bullet cam. Keep in mind that these cameras need power (typically
12 volts) and often have unusual video connectors, so know what you're
looking for and give yourself plenty of time to get everything working
well in advance.

Now to the warnings. No matter how well you prepare, no matter how
uber-alpha-geek you are and no matter how much you think this will be
fire and forget I would not really encourage you to try this at your
first contest, and particularly not unless you have made several
flights with it beforehand. Contest flying takes all kinds of
concentration, before, during and even after the flight. Getting from
the pilots meeting to the grid can be chaotic as even the old hands
sometimes forget stuff and have to scurry about to get it straightened
out. You will feel like a schmoe if you remember to turn on the
camcorder but forget drinking water. Or if you get distracted trying
to re-aim the camera because yesterday's shots all turned out to be of
your right ear and you forget to mark the TFR on your chart. You're a
smart guy and can't imagine anything like that will take you off your
game, but many of the things that go wrong in sailplane racing, or
soaring in general, sneak up on you by inches, when you don't expect
it, or are distracted. So -- if you do this you need to set the
expectation that you will not touch the thing from before the pilots
meeting until after you are put away for the day - even have your crew
(if you have one) take responsibility for turning the damn thing on
and retrieving the video at day's end.

I'll echo Kemp's point on HDD camcorders - they might work above
10,000' but combine low air density with turbulence and you might be
at the edge of the recording head's flight envelope.

9B

snip
The camcorder is a hard-drive-based one that can
record for a pretty good length of time; but I'd rather not deal with
it if I don't have to.

Noel,
In my talk at last year's SSA convention, "HD Video and Soaring" I
overviewed the videocam in cockpit situation, I can send you the
slides if you like.

One thing I point out is that hard disk based systems are often
limited to 10,000 ft as that head is "flying" on a very thin cushion
of air, so you risk a head crash esp. at a place like Warner Springs.

But we need more people shooting footage that has a lesson it (vs
entertainment).

Kemp