Short Wings Gliders

At 17:56 30 January 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:34:56 -0800 (PST), Brad
wrote:

Maybe the younger generation and their quest for adrenalin laced
activites would find competitive soaring compelling, but how many can
afford their own sailplane?

Hi Brad,

I admit that - from a European point of view- I'm having difficulties
to understand why most US based glider pilots think that it's
necessary to own a glider.

Here in Europe by far most gliders are owned by clubs, making it
possible for the club members to fligh latest technology for a yearly
price that hardly exceeds $800.

For most clubs in Germany it's common nowadays that student pilots
fly LS-4 or DG-300. Basic training is usually done in ASK-21 these
days. Nearly any club clubs offer flapped ships (ASW-20, ASW-27) and
state-of-the-art doubleseaters (Duo Dicus, DG-505) to its members.
There is absolutely no interest in flying something inferior.


Why isn't it possible to do that in the US? A couple of US clubs whose
homepages I've seen seem to be able to do that.




Bye
Andreas

Andreas,
the problems in the US and Canada are two fold.
Glider pilots per capita and as a result pilot density.
Also an important differance is the individualistic approach in the US.

There are a number of clubs that operate on the European model and are
successful but there are not enough of them due to the points mentioned
above.

Here in Ontario Canada, with about 12M people, only two Clubs approach
the European model. In Canada with 33M people we only have 1500 Glider
pilots.

I give you a personal example of the problem. When I started gliding in
my mid forties I was established and I owned by then a house in a small
town. The Club I joint was a 1hr drive away . The club had 35 members and
20 were mostly active. We had a Scout tow plane, a 2-33,a Blanik, a twin
astir and a
single astir. No club house and we did not own the field.
Due to a serious of unfortunate events the club went belly up.
I now became a roving pilot. The closest clubs were 3 and 4 hours way. In
the end I did not join any club I became a member at large of the National
club and joint the contest circuit. It was not ideal but still gratifying
and enjoyable.
Lucky for me I was able to pursue the hobby that way.
Now That I will reduce my contest flying, I wish I had a club nearby.
Selling the house and buying an other one near a club is out of the
question. Well, it looks like I may to buy a used self launcher which is
cheaper then moving.
Regards
Udo

Here are some local statistics - Houston TX area:

At my club we had 9 short wing gliders last season.
*One PW5 is a club ship and was flown in the World class
nationals by a member.
*4 PW5's are private and only one does not go X/C.
*3 Russia's are private, 2 go X/C and the third is working
toward that goal.
*One Woodstock is flown X/C by its builder on a regular basis.
*4 of the pilots have attended at least one X/C camp at a
location hundreds of miles away.
*All of the owners are over 50 except one.
*Two of the Russia's were sold this winter and the members are
moving up to 15M ships.

Here the short wing ships are doing what the SSA intended:
allowing prospective X/C pilots to buy affordable ships that are
relatively new and have performance that is good enough to go
X/C. I guess "affordable" should be used carefully, as we are all
"older" and probably have more disposable income than the
younger members. I have only seen one "youngster" buy a ship
in the last 5 years. I think disposable income is shrinking for our
younger pilots. I don't see as many these days, but perhaps I
am just no longer paying attention.

So... If our group of older pilots represents a larger group of
pilots nationwide (debatable) then competitions might want to be
oriented to fulfill their wants and desires. From personal
experience I can tell you this group of newbies does not want to
spend time getting their noses rubbed in the dirt by a bunch of
super pilots flying super ships. If you want them them to go to a
race IMHO, make it more like a camp or a mentoring program
and hold it separately from the longer wing competitions. Lots of
us just want to go fly with like minded friends. Some will feel
competitive, many will attend just to learn and build stick time. I
really think we need to look at this in a whole new way to make
it successful. Low stress, high fun factor.

I can tell you that within our club, we have doubled the number
of X/C pilots in the last 5 years. X/C has really come alive
because of the short wings.

Brian

At 21:30 30 January 2009, Brian Bange wrote:

At my club we had 9 short wing gliders last season.

.....I can tell you this group of newbies does not want to
spend time getting their noses rubbed in the dirt by a bunch of super
pilots flying super ships. If you want them them to go to a race IMHO,
make it more like a camp or a mentoring program and hold it separately
from the longer wing competitions. Lots of us just want to go fly with
like minded friends.

LESS THEN 10 PCT OF GLIDER PILOTS COMPETE!
THE USED MARKET IS FILLED BY THE GLIDERS THEY SOLD....
THOSE GLIDERS WERE DESIGNED TO WIN, OF COURSE!!!

Some will feel competitive, many will attend just to learn and build
stick time. I really think we need to look at this in a whole new way to
make it successful.
Low stress, high fun factor.
I can tell you that within our club, we have doubled the number of X/C
pilots in the last 5 years. X/C has really come alive because of the
short wings.

Brian

WERE THOSE SHORT WINGS GLIDERS DESIGNED FOR FUN AND SAFE FLIGHTS?
OR WERE DESIGNED TO WIN IN THE NEW FAI CLASS:

THE SHORT WINGS HIGH FUN LOW STRESS CLASS

WERE THOSE SHORT WINGS GLIDERS DESIGNED FOR FUN
AND SAFE FLIGHTS?
OR WERE DESIGNED TO WIN IN THE NEW FAI CLASS:

THE SHORT WINGS HIGH FUN LOW STRESS CLASS

Most all were a product of the FAI's initiative to find a World
Class ship. I believe one requirement was that they were
designed to be easy to fly. In my experience with the Russia,
PW5 and L-33, they are. I believe all the FAI is trying to do is
include these ships into the World Class and handicap it, so as
to grow the class. If something new and more competitive
comes along, it will have to live under it's handicap, so where is
the advantage to making something that is hard to handle?

Brian

On 30 Jan 2009 22:45:02 GMT, Brian Bange wrote:


Most all were a product of the FAI's initiative to find a World
Class ship. I believe one requirement was that they were
designed to be easy to fly. In my experience with the Russia,
PW5 and L-33, they are. I believe all the FAI is trying to do is
include these ships into the World Class and handicap it, so as
to grow the class. If something new and more competitive
comes along, it will have to live under it's handicap, so where is
the advantage to making something that is hard to handle?

Well... as there are practiucally no World Class gliders flying in
Europe (read: World Class is being ignored by 80 percent of the
world's gliding pilots), you'd better name it "US class"... or "dwarf
class"...
Bye
Andreas

On Feb 2, 12:03*pm, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On 30 Jan 2009 22:45:02 GMT, Brian Bange wrote:

Most all were a product of the FAI's initiative to find a World
Class ship. I believe one requirement was that they were
designed to be easy to fly. In my experience with the Russia,
PW5 and L-33, they are. I believe all the FAI is trying to do is
include these ships into the World Class and handicap it, so as
to grow the class. If something new and more competitive
comes along, it will have to live under it's handicap, so where is
the advantage to making something that is hard to handle?

Well... as there are practiucally no World Class gliders flying in
Europe (read: World Class is being ignored by 80 percent of the
world's gliding pilots), you'd better name it "US class"... or "dwarf
class"...
Bye
Andreas

Hey, don't blame it on the US, we are ignoring it too.

Todd

At 17:03 02 February 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote:

Well... as there are practiucally no World Class gliders flying in
Europe (read: World Class is being ignored by 80 percent of the
world's gliding pilots), you'd better name it "US class"... or
"dwarf
class"...

Can't say that it's overwhelmingly popular in the US, either. The World
Class US Nationals have been running concurrently with the 1-26
Championships, and it seems like there are 4 to 5 times as many 1-26s as
there are PW-5s.

Jim Beckman

At 22:45 02 February 2009, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 17:03 02 February 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote:

Well... as there are practically no World Class gliders flying in
Europe (read: World Class is being ignored by 80 percent of the
world's gliding pilots), you'd better name it "US class"... or
dwarf class"...

Short Wings Gliders might account for 5 pct of world fleet
if 20 percent of the world's gliding pilots are interested
it will be a great success!!!!!


Can't say that it's overwhelmingly popular in the US, either. The
World
Class US Nationals have been running concurrently with the 1-26
Championships, and it seems like there are 4 to 5 times as many 1-26s as
there are PW-5s.

it makes sense..........
1-26 700 built for usa only
PW-5 200 built for the world

unless Arnold's friend comes around and pull out another
Judas trick like he did here in the last supper:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VnTO...eature=related

and you get bread, fish and PW-5 multiplied ..................