Sad day for Mxsmanic

In article ,
wrote:

Mike Ash wrote:
To be fair, that's a biased sample, as you're working with people who
already have flying skill, so naturally they'll find flying to be the
easy part. Somebody with a whole lot of experience with electronic
gadgets but little experience with flying may not have that same
experience. I'd expect a computer geek who has never touched real flight
controls to have an easier time following instructions on button-pushing
than control-handling, although he may well have a tough time of both,
and I still have little confidence in the ultimate outcome unless
somebody actually tries it and proves otherwise.

There's also the psychological issue that most people think without
constant "tending" of the airplane by both the pilots and air traffic
control, an airplane will fall out of the sky.

Your average person would likely be paralyzed by fear if told they had
to land the airplane.

Yes, I had nearly the exact same thought. Even if (big if) a simmer had
all the knowledge from his PC experience, would he be able to perform
when his life and a couple hundred other lives are on the line?

Really, I think that he probably would. Humans tend to step up in a
crisis more than fall apart. But it's certainly important, and not a
given by any means.

Then there is the practical issue of finding someone who can tell a
totally ignorant person how to find the necessary buttons to push
and what to enter entirely from memory for a given random aircraft
type. There is a reason for type training by airlines.

Yeah, I think the ease of this is overstated. You have to start talking
to somebody on the ground and communicate the gravity of the situation.
THEY then have to figure out who to talk to, who has to figure out, etc.
Eventually you're going to need a team of at least two people on the
ground, I figure, one of whom is an experienced pilot and the other a
person who can translate the pilot talk into something the simmer can
understand. (Experts aren't always good at explaining things to laymen,
even well-read laymen, alas.) And I figure they're going to have to
actually be *in* an identical airplane, or a simulator with an identical
cockpit, so that they can properly remember where everything is. And
then they have to talk the guy down.

All of this has to happen before the poor *******s up in the air run out
of fuel and die. Can even this much be done, much less the actual
talking-through-the-landing part? I'm doubtful myself. If anyone with
airline logistics experience would like to weigh in, I'd love to hear
about the practicality of simply finding the people and equipment from
someone who knows.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Mike Ash writes:

All of this has to happen before the poor *******s up in the air run out
of fuel and die.

Incapacitation of the pilots does not drain fuel from the tanks.

Can even this much be done, much less the actual
talking-through-the-landing part? I'm doubtful myself. If anyone with
airline logistics experience would like to weigh in, I'd love to hear
about the practicality of simply finding the people and equipment from
someone who knows.

It seems to be pretty easy to find S&R, fire equipment, and military
interception on short notice; why would it be hard to find an instructor?

Mxsmanic wrote:
Mike Ash writes:

All of this has to happen before the poor *******s up in the air run out
of fuel and die.

Incapacitation of the pilots does not drain fuel from the tanks.

Can even this much be done, much less the actual
talking-through-the-landing part? I'm doubtful myself. If anyone with
airline logistics experience would like to weigh in, I'd love to hear
about the practicality of simply finding the people and equipment from
someone who knows.

It seems to be pretty easy to find S&R, fire equipment, and military
interception on short notice; why would it be hard to find an instructor?

In what fantasy world does this happen?


--
Jim Pennino

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Mike Ash writes:

All of this has to happen before the poor *******s up in the air run out
of fuel and die.

Incapacitation of the pilots does not drain fuel from the tanks.

Can even this much be done, much less the actual
talking-through-the-landing part? I'm doubtful myself. If anyone with
airline logistics experience would like to weigh in, I'd love to hear
about the practicality of simply finding the people and equipment from
someone who knows.

It seems to be pretty easy to find S&R, fire equipment, and military
interception on short notice; why would it be hard to find an instructor?

Are you really that stupid?

Do you have a staffed, 24 hour Flight Instructor Department next to the
local Fire Department in France? Do they drive emergency vehicles? Slide
down poles?

You're a hopeless twit.

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Mike Ash writes:

All of this has to happen before the poor *******s up in the air run out
of fuel and die.

Incapacitation of the pilots does not drain fuel from the tanks.

The *engines turning* drains the fuel from the tanks. In other words
there is a strict time limit on all of these activities.

Can even this much be done, much less the actual
talking-through-the-landing part? I'm doubtful myself. If anyone with
airline logistics experience would like to weigh in, I'd love to hear
about the practicality of simply finding the people and equipment from
someone who knows.

It seems to be pretty easy to find S&R, fire equipment, and military
interception on short notice; why would it be hard to find an instructor?

Your stupidity never ceases to amaze. All of the people you list in the
first clause are in positions that are staffed and on-call and prepared
to respond. Instructors are not emergency responders.

It seems to be pretty easy to get an ambulance on short notice, why
would it be hard to find a painter?

Airports don't keep instructors sitting around on call ready to leap
into action at a moment's notice the way they do S&R, firemen, and
military interceptors.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

writes:

There's also the psychological issue that most people think without
constant "tending" of the airplane by both the pilots and air traffic
control, an airplane will fall out of the sky.

Not everyone believes that.

Your average person would likely be paralyzed by fear if told they had
to land the airplane.

I seriously doubt that. Most people aren't quite that irrational, especially
under pressure.

Then there is the practical issue of finding someone who can tell a
totally ignorant person how to find the necessary buttons to push
and what to enter entirely from memory for a given random aircraft
type. There is a reason for type training by airlines.

You can put the instructor in a sim, and it's not hard to locate the buttons.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

There's also the psychological issue that most people think without
constant "tending" of the airplane by both the pilots and air traffic
control, an airplane will fall out of the sky.

Not everyone believes that.

Wrong yet again; most people do in fact believe that.

Your average person would likely be paralyzed by fear if told they had
to land the airplane.

I seriously doubt that. Most people aren't quite that irrational, especially
under pressure.

Having seen the reactions people who have actually been trained to
respond in pressure situations, I can assure you that it is true.

Then there is the practical issue of finding someone who can tell a
totally ignorant person how to find the necessary buttons to push
and what to enter entirely from memory for a given random aircraft
type. There is a reason for type training by airlines.

You can put the instructor in a sim, and it's not hard to locate the buttons.

How many realistic sims down to the switch position level for any given
random aircraft do you thing exist in the world given they cost millions
of dollars?


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

Having seen the reactions people who have actually been trained to
respond in pressure situations, I can assure you that it is true.

I have also seen these reactions, and they do not match your assertion.

How many realistic sims down to the switch position level for any given
random aircraft do you thing exist in the world given they cost millions
of dollars?

Quite a few ... and you only need one.

Robert M. Gary writes:

I teach glass cockpit training and I see very intelligent, experienced
pilots have lots of trouble working with the automation. In fact I
have *never* encountered a pilot who thought it was easier to fly with
the automation than to fly on old steam gauges.

But the person in the cockpit in this scenario would not be a pilot.

Steam gauges don't fly the plane. Automation doesn't replace the gauges.

Aah yes - the famous MXS mantra.
It's so easy, any monkey can do it. The only humans who are functionally
incapable of performing these simple tasks are pilots themselves, because their
intelligence is so impaired they cannot even realize they are the least capable
of doing their own job . . .

This posted to a pilot's forum, intermixed with angelic "who-me?" rhetoric.
Anyone detect passive-aggressive intent here?

To quote Frost :
What but Design - design to appall
If design govern in a brain so small. . .

Lamentable.
Find a doctor - it's urgent . . .




In article ,
says...


It's actually easier to land an airliner than it is to land a small aircraft,
because small aircraft usually have only limited automation, just as small
aircraft pilots usually have no clue about how large airliners work, and tend
to assume that everything flies like their Cessnas.