FW TA-183 Huckebein.....did it ever fly?

"Nick Pedley" wrote in message ...
"KC" wrote in message
...
Thanks guys.
The story that is in our discussion is that the Soviets built and flew the
183 one source claims 6 were built. His proof is this highly suspect black
&
while photo of the Huck landing.

Please take a look at the (hobby) link I have posted for the picture a
tell
me what you think.

http://m2reviews.cnsi.net/reviews/ax.../kuster183.htm

Thanks

My money's on that being a Soviet build or a very good fake pic.

Nick


Sorry, it is neither. It is a German flying model, one of Focke-Wulf
Bad Eilsen's as evidenced by the Design II features (especially the
tail). For similar "in-flight/on ground" model photos look up Ar.
E.381, He P.1077 Julia, Me-265, and Me P.1112. The only German
aircraft that were built/completed in the USSR postwar were some of
the Ju EF-series (126,131,140,150), Ju-248, and the DFS 346. Of these,
only the EF 126 and DFS 346 were purely German.
The Soviets got their Ta 183 plans from the RLM office in Berlin.
Although heavily influenced by the Ta 183 the MiG S/I-310 prototypes
were not German-built.

Photo of I-310 S-1:

http://www.lizdas.it/aviacija/rusija..._15/mig-15.jpg

Photo of I-310 S-3:

http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/His...15/I-310_1.jpg

Photo of La-168 competitor (which looks closer to Ta 183 Design II):

http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/His...15/La168_1.jpg

Rob

robert arndt wrote:

"Nick Pedley" wrote in message ...
"KC" wrote in message
...
Thanks guys.
The story that is in our discussion is that the Soviets built and flew the
183 one source claims 6 were built. His proof is this highly suspect black
&
while photo of the Huck landing.

Please take a look at the (hobby) link I have posted for the picture a
tell
me what you think.

http://m2reviews.cnsi.net/reviews/ax.../kuster183.htm

Thanks

My money's on that being a Soviet build or a very good fake pic.

Nick

Sorry, it is neither. It is a German flying model, one of Focke-Wulf
Bad Eilsen's as evidenced by the Design II features (especially the
tail). For similar "in-flight/on ground" model photos look up Ar.
E.381, He P.1077 Julia, Me-265, and Me P.1112. The only German
aircraft that were built/completed in the USSR postwar were some of
the Ju EF-series (126,131,140,150), Ju-248, and the DFS 346. Of these,
only the EF 126 and DFS 346 were purely German.
The Soviets got their Ta 183 plans from the RLM office in Berlin.
Although heavily influenced by the Ta 183 the MiG S/I-310 prototypes
were not German-built.

There was little direct influence of the Ta183 on MiG efforts,
especially the MiG 15, but it did closely parallel and assist Lagg
efforts. Though the eventual Lagg 15 could be considered a production
adaption of the '183, being very similar in features, it could also be
more a matter of convergent evolution, as the intended roles were very
similar. Overall, the '183 was likely more of a supplemental validation
of on going Russian design work that a direct item to be copied, as some
features pre-date access to the German work.

As to the '183 itself, I was under the impression that work was well
underway on at least one, if not three prototypes by the end of the
war(?) as some sources claim a time line of flight tests intended for
summer of '45 (?)

As to the '183 itself, I was under the impression that work was well
underway on at least one, if not three prototypes by the end of the
war(?) as some sources claim a time line of flight tests intended for
summer of '45 (?)

My general area of interest is German and British aerial nightfighting and
Focke Wulf Luft 46 projects are outside my usual reading, so I have not seen
the source documents that Radinger and Schick have for their book on this
project - what Rob reports is news to me as well. R and S did a credible job
on the Me 262 books, but missed entirely on some aspects, so I would still want
to know the pilot, date, and location of any claimed test flight for a Ta 183 -
remember, there were rumours of an HG II being completed as well, but it never
turned up in the photographic record.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

remember, there were rumours of an HG II being completed as well, but it never
turned up in the photographic record.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

Before the Me 262 HG II (Werk Nummer 111538)could commence flight
trials it was seriously damaged in a ground accident. Repairs were not
completed by war's end.

- from "Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Fighters 1939-1945" pg 85

The HG I (aka Me 262 V9, werk nummer 130004) flew with chief test
pilot Karl Baur at the controls in Jan 1945 while the unfinished HG
III was windtunnel tested by the British in the LFA wind tunnel at
Volkenrode in Nov 1945 with standard unswept tail unit.

- same book, pg 85

Rob

Before the Me 262 HG II (Werk Nummer 111538)could commence flight
trials it was seriously damaged in a ground accident. Repairs were not
completed by war's end.

- from "Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Fighters 1939-1945" pg 85

I know about that claim - "Prototype for swept wing and tail, HGII - Damaged by
another aircraft on the ground - (Erprobungsberichte 56)" -- I have friends
that collect those reports and have a copy myself, buried somewhere. However,
the aircraft is often reported as "completed" i.e., flight worthy, and further,
that it made test flights. We've been working that knot for year: the
airframe was substantially complete, reported ready for testing within 48
hours, then, the official record goes silent - no wreckage or airframe in this
configuration was found following the war.

The HG I (aka Me 262 V9, werk nummer 130004) flew with chief test
pilot Karl Baur at the controls in Jan 1945 while the unfinished HG
III was windtunnel tested by the British in the LFA wind tunnel at
Volkenrode in Nov 1945 with standard unswept tail unit.


I have the photos of the wind tunnel model being tested - pretty damn shocking
when Richard first found the report buried at NARA, showing clearly that German
scientists were demonstrating their wind tunnel, using the HG III analog!, to
prove their WT technology to their American captors.

Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.