Sad day for Mxsmanic

***********************************
You might as well give it up with this person, too. *It is more likely that
you will have a real 747 qualified pilot on board, than you would likely
find a simmer with the kind of "practiced" on the 747. *This one will never
concede, either.
--
Jim in NC

Jim

Believe me I'm nowhere near as bad as MX!!!

Are you saying that all that I have learnt and 'practiced' bears no
correlation to the systems and controls of a real 747-400 because it
does. I have watched a lot of real tutorial dvds (not talking about
little flyby clips on Youtube, but official licensed products on the
747 and 767 flightdecks). The position and behavior of EVERY switch
whether it on the overhead panel, radio panel, Mode Control Panel, the
glass cockpit, the FMC do EXACTLY as the real thing does. I know if I
press 'this' the aircraft will do 'that'. A full procedural checklist
MUST be followed (as per the real thing) for engine start including
APU, ground power, setting pumps to Aux and Auto, turning off packs
etc I know for FACT that if I was to sit down in a 747-400 flightdeck
(forgetting all this emergency landing issue) I could name a huge
majority of the switches, tell you where they are located and the
effect they have on the flight thus giving me some form of advantage
to that of a person who has never been on a flight deck OR used a
simulator/game.

I have openly stated it's a training aid and can successfully
compliment flight training for procedures and navigation flight
planning etc. I know it's not the be-all-and-end all tool that will
give you a PPL after a weeks use which is were MX falls short off. I
know there is a LOT more to learn about the dynamics of flight,
weather systems, regulations etc etc. I know alot of real life pilots
who use it and some are actually prominant members on this forum (but
keep quite), there are those with PPL's, instructors, a retired A320
captain and a retired Gulf War veteran who flew rotaries in the Gulf.
When I took my first flying lesson I felt I could have solo'd, laugh
as you may, but the controls, throttle, pitching, descending, straight
and level flight, torque effects of the prop had ALL been experienced
by me in the sim so I already knew how to compensate for them. I was
turning to certain bearings, climbing/descending to set altitudes,
trimming the aircraft, maintaining set speeds - ALL on my first lesson
and ALL picked up entirely from the sim. As I've already said we all
need real lessons too but the sim CAN help as it has already done for
me.

Ibby

"Ibby" wrote in message
...
***********************************
You might as well give it up with this person, too. It is more likely that
you will have a real 747 qualified pilot on board, than you would likely
find a simmer with the kind of "practiced" on the 747. This one will never
concede, either.
--
Jim in NC

Jim

Believe me I'm nowhere near as bad as MX!!!

Are you saying that all that I have learnt and 'practiced' bears no
correlation to the systems and controls of a real 747-400 because it
does. I have watched a lot of real tutorial dvds (not talking about
little flyby clips on Youtube, but official licensed products on the
747 and 767 flightdecks). The position and behavior of EVERY switch
whether it on the overhead panel, radio panel, Mode Control Panel, the
glass cockpit, the FMC do EXACTLY as the real thing does. I know if I
press 'this' the aircraft will do 'that'. A full procedural checklist
MUST be followed (as per the real thing) for engine start including
APU, ground power, setting pumps to Aux and Auto, turning off packs
etc I know for FACT that if I was to sit down in a 747-400 flightdeck
(forgetting all this emergency landing issue) I could name a huge
majority of the switches, tell you where they are located and the
effect they have on the flight thus giving me some form of advantage
to that of a person who has never been on a flight deck OR used a
simulator/game.

I have openly stated it's a training aid and can successfully
compliment flight training for procedures and navigation flight
planning etc. I know it's not the be-all-and-end all tool that will
give you a PPL after a weeks use which is were MX falls short off. I
know there is a LOT more to learn about the dynamics of flight,
weather systems, regulations etc etc. I know alot of real life pilots
who use it and some are actually prominant members on this forum (but
keep quite), there are those with PPL's, instructors, a retired A320
captain and a retired Gulf War veteran who flew rotaries in the Gulf.
When I took my first flying lesson I felt I could have solo'd, laugh
as you may, but the controls, throttle, pitching, descending, straight
and level flight, torque effects of the prop had ALL been experienced
by me in the sim so I already knew how to compensate for them. I was
turning to certain bearings, climbing/descending to set altitudes,
trimming the aircraft, maintaining set speeds - ALL on my first lesson
and ALL picked up entirely from the sim. As I've already said we all
need real lessons too but the sim CAN help as it has already done for
me.

Ibby

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, and how was your landing?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, and how was your landing?

I wasn't allowed to land on my first lesson and I would doubt anyone
is but I'm sure your hoping to compare my first lesson to how I, or a
complete novice with zero aircraft experience, would land a commercial
airliner. Landing a small Cessna 152 (with NO AUTOPILOT) requires
manual control of pitch and throttle to retain the required descent
rate and localiser following. Landing an airliner can all be done via
the Autoland system with the press of a few buttons. It doesn't have
to be done manually, you do NOT have to control the yoke or touch the
thrust levers until on the ground. MOST real life landings are done
with this method with the pilot perhaps only disconnecting the
autopilot and autothrottle systems a few hundred feet above ground
level when the aircraft is already established and configured for the
descent path i.e. descent rate, airspeed and lateral position. His
hands will of course remain on the control column and thrust levels in
case he needs to press the TOGA button on the thrust lever in case of
a Go-Around etc.

If a novice or even a PPL pilot had to hand fly an airliner and land
it yes it would more than likely result in disaster but less likely
with the highly technical automation systems available today in the
Next Generation Boeings.

Ibby

"Ibby" wrote in message
...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, and how was your landing?

I wasn't allowed to land on my first lesson and I would doubt anyone
is but I'm sure your hoping to compare my first lesson to how I, or a
complete novice with zero aircraft experience, would land a commercial
airliner. Landing a small Cessna 152 (with NO AUTOPILOT) requires
manual control of pitch and throttle to retain the required descent
rate and localiser following. Landing an airliner can all be done via
the Autoland system with the press of a few buttons. It doesn't have
to be done manually, you do NOT have to control the yoke or touch the
thrust levers until on the ground. MOST real life landings are done
with this method with the pilot perhaps only disconnecting the
autopilot and autothrottle systems a few hundred feet above ground
level when the aircraft is already established and configured for the
descent path i.e. descent rate, airspeed and lateral position. His
hands will of course remain on the control column and thrust levels in
case he needs to press the TOGA button on the thrust lever in case of
a Go-Around etc.

If a novice or even a PPL pilot had to hand fly an airliner and land
it yes it would more than likely result in disaster but less likely
with the highly technical automation systems available today in the
Next Generation Boeings.

Ibby

Oh brother, Mx Jr.

Oh brother, Mx Jr.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

God man grow up. What do you think the point of an autopilot,
autolanding and autothrottle systems are for?? To make control of an
airliner easier for the flightcrew whether it an Airbus, Boeing and MD
and even a Cirus, Pipers etc. As a Cessna 152 has NONE of these
systems they have to be flown by hand and landed by hand. An airliner
does NOT HAVE to be hand flown - in REAL LIFE and RARELY is. Read
some books, watch some videos and wise up you lot. I was DEFENDING
the skill required in hand flying a light aircraft but it just seems
to literally 'fly' over a lot of heads here in your blindness for what
you are reading. There is nothing wrong with my previous post. I
know what is required in a real aircraft to control airspeed,
attitude, descents and climbs because I HAVE bloody flown a REAL
aircraft but in the UK you are not permitted to land or take off on
your first lesson which I was commenting on.

Ibby

"Ibby" wrote in message
...

You grow up dumb ass. Just exactly like MX, in your ignorance and
inexperience you missed the whole point.

You grow up dumb ass. Just exactly like MX, in your ignorance and
inexperience you missed the whole point.

So how can someone who HAS physically controlled a real aircraft (me)
be compared to MX who HASN'T controlled a real aircraft????????????

The Sim isn't perfect but it DOES teach (especially with commercial
addons) elements of flight and navigation. It helped me understand
what was required on my first flight in a Cessna 152.
Infact the REAL aircraft was EASIER to roll, pitch and trim than the
sim. If my comments are so stupid about landing an airliner then YOU
describe to ME the process involved in doing so!! Why do airports
have ILS's, why do they have DME etc, for navigation and automated
flight. Why does the FMC have a full SID STAR database if the pilot
was just going to hand fly them based on his charts? Do commercial
airlines use the autopilot - yes they do from 500ft after takeoff to
potential touchdown. An airline pilot would NEVER hand fly an entire
route from takeoff, cruise to landing as per your assumptions. Doing
so WOULD be very difficult and I'd freely give credit to a pilot that
could do it but they use all systems available to ease their workload
- FACT. Ask a REAL airline pilot, not a GA pilot. Infact ask them
too, if you have an autopilot on your aircraft - DO you use it and why
do you use it if not to make the flight easier? You hardly use it 'for
the challenge'

Ibby

Hi,

In article ,
wrote:
but in the UK you are not permitted to land or take off on
your first lesson which I was commenting on.

I know of no regulation in the UK that prevents it. If there were one, I
would therefore know of several people in the UK that have breached it.

Andy
(UK PPL)

In article 94be11d7-f0cb-4b92-b98e-36585bce1806
@q11g2000vbn.googlegroups.com, says...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, and how was your landing?

I wasn't allowed to land on my first lesson and I would doubt anyone
is but I'm sure your hoping to compare my first lesson to how I, or a
complete novice with zero aircraft experience, would land a commercial
airliner. Landing a small Cessna 152 (with NO AUTOPILOT) requires
manual control of pitch and throttle to retain the required descent
rate and localiser following. Landing an airliner can all be done via
the Autoland system with the press of a few buttons. It doesn't have
to be done manually, you do NOT have to control the yoke or touch the
thrust levers until on the ground. MOST real life landings are done
with this method

??? Most?

Certainly not.

--
Duncan

*It doesn't have
to be done manually, you do NOT have to control the yoke or touch the
thrust levers until on the ground. *MOST real life landings are done
with this method

??? Most?

Certainly not.

--
Duncan

Duncan

So do YOU believe a pilot of a 737 or 747 hand flys an entire STAR
approach, captures the ILS localiser and glideslope, whilst keeping
critical control of his altitude and reducing airspeed and deployment
of flaps ALL by hand. Commercial pilots use the autopilot's approach
system at the very LEAST to get established on the localiser and
control the descent on the glideslope whilst they manually reduce the
desired speed (still under the autopilots autohrottle control) on the
Mode Control Panel

Watch this video of the final stages of a 747-400 approach and landing
into San Fransisco. This is a typical landing. The pilot
disconnected the autopilot at a few hundred feet but this aircraft and
runway 28L could have enabled him to perform a full autoland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ShBOtPiuNM

As you can clearly witness the majority of the input required by the
pilot to maintain flight, approach and landing is via the MCP on the
glareshield

Ibby


Ibby